David Harvey  0:01  
Hi there. I'm David Harvey. I'm here with John Andrews. And this is the two texts podcast. In this podcast, we're two friends in two different countries here every two weeks, talking about two different texts from the Bible. This, however, is our launch series. So we're bringing you a daily episode of the two of us talking about the parables of Jesus. This is Episode 12. And it's called grace makes you worth it. 

Okay, john, so it's great to be back with you. And I was just reflecting after our last podcast that we did, where we talked about, towards the end, we talked about self righteousness and this desire to justify yourself in that parable of the tax collector and the Pharisees. And that sense of this quest for justifying ourselves and the quest to establish that, that I'm playing by all the rules and look at what I'm doing. And I'd almost what you might call a sort of guilt management system, how do I prove to everybody that I'm doing enough and perhaps john, there's even a sense of how do I prove to myself that I'm doing enough? And so I think we often talk about righteousness and self righteousness, and we might go, Well, that's old fashioned biblical language. But if I talk about the question, am I enough? That's a 21st century zone of terror, right? For some people, you know, for actually, for most people's Oh, am I enough? That's a really quite terrifying question, right? And then Jesus tells a parable. And, and, and this parable like, john, I have since we started this Jesus series, I've been so excited for the day that we would get to this parable. So this is the parable in Matthew chapter 20. And it begins at verse one. And I'm not even going to tell you what parable that is, if you're listening, just listen to john read this. And let the drama of this parable just roll out in front of you. So john, you take us away

John Andrews   2:24  
from the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire man to work in his vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. But the third hour, he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, You also go and work in my vein yard, I will pay you whatever is right. So they went, he went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the 11th hour, he went out and found Still others standing around. He asked them, Why have you been standing here all day, doing nothing? because no one's hired us, they answered. He said to them, You also go and work in my vineyard. When evening came, the owner of the VIN yard said to his foreman, called the workers and pay them their wages beginning with the last ones hired. And going on to the first. The workers who were hired about the 11th hour came and each received a denarius. So when those who were hired first game, they expected to receive more, but each one of them also received the denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. These men who were hired last worked only one hour, they said, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the work on the heat of the day. But he answered one of them, friend, I'm not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you don't have the right to do what I want with my own money. Or are you envious, because I am generous. So the last will be first, on the first will be last.

David Harvey  4:35  
But he's just fire from Jesus.

John Andrews   4:40  
It's even funny reading it. I mean, as you read it, you're sort of going, you're surely going. This is like, you know, you're trying to contain the humor. As you are reading this on of course, I'm thinking as a preacher, communicator type person, I'm thinking of the reaction of the crowd and the reaction of the disciples As he's talking this stuff and and they would What? What he did what? So yeah,

David Harvey  5:06  
it's an interesting experiment actually. Because, you know, you might be familiar with this parable. And one of the things that happens when you're familiar with any biblical text is that you, you start to read what you think is there. And I'd always encourage anyone that one of the first exercises is just try even why, you know, we didn't tell you what parable we're actually going to read is trying to hear it a fresh train here at New and it strikes me that you know, the guy comes out and he said, Hey, will you work in my field for my memory a vineyard for denarius which I denarius is about a day's wages for labor time of Jesus was very fair. Yeah, I'll work I'll work for you for dinner. And then it comes out and second time, you know, and the language is quite interesting, because Jesus is even a little coy with the storytelling, and you know, about three in the afternoon, he did the same thing and also at noon, and and you automatically assume the same thing is, Hey, would you like to come in my vineyard? You don't assume that the same thing also means for exactly the same money? You would you know, you would always assume that Oh, no, it's for half a denarius because half the days gone a quarter of the denarius because the third, you know, two thirds of the days gone or something like that. It's it's really interesting storytime that it's only at the end, that you discover, oh, no, it really is the same. They're all getting the same amount of money. It's, it's, it's a great way to kind of trick the listener. And that might sound suspicious. I don't mean it like that. But really good storytelling. It's, it's out to try and just make you think it's going to go one way and it goes another way isn't an unusual different story, aren't you?

John Andrews   6:45  
Absolutely. And I love the little there's a little, just phrase, I don't know if our listeners picked it up, as I was reading it. You know, where he says, The Master says the landowner says to those hired later, he says, I will pay you whatever is right. Yes. So the implication there is, oh, yeah, I'll do the right thing by everybody. I'll pay a fair wage, of course, what we do naturally, which of course, the guys hired first actually did was that we read into that, or there will be an adjustment of the hire fee, there will be an adjustment of the price paired here. And of course, that's why you get at the end, the guys who are coming in last who've been in first waiting in line for their pair thinking, well, if the guy in last gets the same as us, they're sort of doing the hourly rate on that thinking we're quids in, this is going to be amazing. We've just made a fortune. He's just paid the guy coming in last, yes, like the same as ours. We've been here all day, therefore. And then you get this this boom moment this shocking. Final then conclusion which which is really shocking, probably to the audience and to us.

David Harvey  8:04  
So a couple of things, then I want to spin off on that, john, because it's so exciting, right? Is that the first one is that go back to our intro of the podcast today, we are talking about this quest for self righteousness. And this was the sort of the comment we made from the last episode. But of course, it's worth just pointing out then that that the the language that the vineyard owner uses, I will pay you what is right, of course, the work the word there is I'll pay you what is just what it's Matthew. And I think I would always encourage somebody on this that the gospel writers, you know, they're, they're, they're constantly leaving bread crumbs all over the place for us Jesus is, is is using language and they're using that language tell us the parables of Jesus. But But Matthew is riffing on some massive subjects here. And and they're not. They're not light subjects in that sort of sense, are they? And so I don't know if you want to say anything about that, john, but that idea of Don't think about IP was right, as in, I'll do the right thing. I'll do the right thing. But although there's still nuances of this, think about always I will do what he's just right. I will bring I will bring justice to this situation. Now that place still going on there, though, john, isn't it that? Well, Justice would be if you're paying him a denarius for an hour and I worked, I worked seven hours or nine hours, then it's nine denarius. For me, that's kind of what's going on a little bit, isn't it?

John Andrews   9:33  
Absolutely. And, and I think within that, you know, they're imposing their own standard of justice, of justice into this story, and of course, you've got then a clash between how we interpret justice are high we expect justice or high We want justice, and high then the landowner, as it were, pays that job. To cite and you know, some of our listeners will, will be aware of the sort of cycles there that probably the first workers are hired at around about six o'clock in the morning. And then the second cycle, they're hired around about 9am. So it works in sort of three, our cycles, and the text follows that. And then you've got a sort of a 12pm pickup. And then you've got a 3pm pickup. And of course, most controversially of all you've got this 11th hour pickup, which if we're following our timeline is 5pm. In the afternoon, delight is virtually gone. If you've ever been to the Middle East, you know, by by 5pm Layton is fading fast. And, and you've got a very interesting scenario where someone is still being hired so so the workers assume, or if the Masters going to do what is just, then that means, if the guy at the 11th hour gets a denarius, then we're where we're going to get that times the hours that we have worked on. And so you have a very interesting clash of other views view on what is just or

David Harvey  11:17  
what's expected around justice, though. And so Jesus, it's worth making a contextual point that Jesus is leaning into a parable based on a scene that we're very, very familiar to the average person. So you're in a hand to mouth society. So there's a huge amount of people are not wealthy, they like some economic, you know, economics of the ancient world would suggest that 98% of people are existing around the subsistence level, but most of them below. So. So this is now a story about survival. Right? So if you're at the marketplace at nine o'clock in the morning, that means you don't have any work, right? Because as exactly as you've just said, john, you missed the six o'clock pickup, right? So the people that have the work that have employment, they're already in the fields at six o'clock in the morning, they know where their breads coming from the person that's there at nine o'clock, something's wrong with them that they've not picked up a job, some things. So actually, there's a little nuance that Wait a minute, you're the nine o'clock people don't think you're the six o'clock people. So you were already in reliant on you've, you've already got a day's wages for three hours less work that you were supposed to get, right. But if you if you're there at five o'clock in the evening, I just think it's a really interesting cultural nuance to add. For anyone reading this story. If you're there still at the 11th hour, that means you don't eat today. Because your days Wait, because you're only going to get an average wages if that. And therefore it's not guaranteed that you have food now, for the next day. So the stakes, this is a story everybody's familiar with this is a story that people see happening day in, day out. So so I want to just add in this and then I'm going to spin off this to a little footnote for a second, john, but but tell me if you're if you're going to roofing with me on this, there is a question there about what's right, in that sort of sense, isn't there? Is it right that a person should get to the start of the day and not know where they're going to eat that evening like this, the parable scratching at some really big notions isn't?

John Andrews   13:18  
Oh, absolutely. And I think it shows again, what Jesus is absolutely brilliant, that is touching on the real humaneness of the story. And not only associating with his audience in terms of, you know, a great communication connecting point, but Jesus would have literally lived this, he would have seen this, he would have understood families living at a subsistence level, especially in the Galilee area, so mostly arable, very, very difficult times, the taxation from the Romans would have been absolutely colossal. Jesus, I suspect would have seen families taken into indentured slavery. And as the eldest son with probably his earthly father, having passed while Jesus was maybe a teenager, he disappears from the scene very, very quickly. Jesus probably had the pick up the family financial management very, very quickly, he becomes the chief breadwinner of his home and looks after his mother. The pressure then economically on people and the sense of then justice and righteousness around those issues. And what would God's role be in that would have been very, very, I think prevalent in everyone's thinking you wouldn't have had to scratch very hard under the surface to get a sort of a conversation going in that particular issue. Absolutely.

David Harvey  14:52  
Little bit of help with Matthew for a second then so so you know, I will do what is just okay. I will do what is what is right or righteous? Well, what do you think righteous means? Well, we would naturally go righteous must mean, Justice must mean if you work the whole day, get a whole day's salary. And if you work the one hour, you get one hour salary. But interestingly, there's a principle that sometimes people talk about, about the principle of first mention that sometimes within an ancient book, sometimes one of the interesting things to do is when you're looking at a particular word, how is that word being used throughout this book? Right? So before you just jump off and grab a dictionary and say, what does this word mean in the Bible? Or the ancient world? Actually, that question of, but what does it mean to Matthew, right? And it's really fascinating. For me, the first time this this notion of justice appears in Matthew is in verse 19, of chapter one in the Christmas story, right? Joseph finds out that Mary is pregnant through the Holy Spirit. And then Matthew offers this this little piece of commentary, because Joseph, her husband, was a righteous man. He did not want to expose her to public disgrace, and he has in mind to just divorce her quietly. Now, if you're not steeped in a little bit of this culture here, you miss what Matthews just done there, which is really quite fascinating that he says, Hey, so Joseph's betrothed wife has turned out pregnant, not by Joseph. Right. So this is a major public shame. This is a scandal really, isn't it? JOHN into it. This is scandalous What's going on? The law says that Joseph should take her to the to the elders, and they would have a trial over this and it and the penalty might be very, very severe. And the irony is that that's justice. So justice would see you've broke the rules, are you betrothal? So you're going to have this little probably kangaroo court, you know, and we figure it out. And we and we issue the punishment upon you, which if you go right back to Old Testament times his punishment by stoning. But Joseph doesn't do this, he decides I'm just gonna keep this quiet, and kind of just squeeze Mary out the back door. And in a lot of readings of this story, we focus a lot on Joseph trying to squeeze Mary out the back door, missing the fact that Matthew points out, Joseph is righteous. But ironically, the very first mention of righteousness in Matthew's Gospel, Joseph isn't doing your righteousness by the law. He's actually he's actually identified. I don't like what the law Joseph knows if I tell somebody about this Mary's in big trouble. So Matthews layering on this new level, it's almost like coded right at the very start of the gospel. And I don't mean that word, Cody doesn't like Da Vinci Code, I mean, just just layered into the gospel. This is beautiful sense of the very first introduction, you get to righteousness, the rules are different. So I think the reader when they now read this parable, as soon as, as soon as the landowner says, oh, and I'll do what's right, it's like, it's, it's like in in, you know, in some one of these movies, where you watch it back afterwards and go, Oh, I missed it. It was there. It was a clue that righteousness isn't going to work the way that I would do, right.

John Andrews   18:11  
It's It's beautiful, beautiful thought. And, and, of course, you know, Joseph, has, in a sense, his considers carefully his own standard of justice. So there is a justice that he is exercising, he's interpreting the law and the context in a certain way, which actually, the Bible notes and says this, this is a standout moment, Matthew could have said simply, that Joseph, you know, just didn't go to court or, you know, but he talks about the fact that the motivation of this is a sense of just newness, which is beautiful. And of course, as we, as we move further into Matthew, your touch on that glorious Sermon on the Mount, you get, again, a sense of tension around this, Jesus says, unless your righteousness sort of surpasses that of the Pharisees, you're not really going to engage with the kingdom of God. And then we have this sort of glorious, backwards and forwards in six times where he goes, You have heard it said, so here's how some people will interpret righteousness and justice. But I say to you, here's my interpret. So you've heard it said, you know, love your neighbor, hit your enemy. You've heard it said, do not commit adultery, have heard it said, you know. So Jesus then challenges what has been said, with an interpretation, it throws then a different emphasis on an understanding of justice and righteousness within that context. So so you're continuing with this theme of sort of challenge in in the Matthew text, which is I think it's a beautiful Trojan.

David Harvey  20:00  
And it's interesting as you say that you know that unless you reaches, surpasses, and we naturally think let's go back to again, where we started this question of enoughness. Right? We naturally think more is always the solution, don't we? And that fight for more. I heard somebody say once, I think it's David zoll. In his book, secular city, he says, if you want to look for where your quest for righteousness is most pronounced, he says, look for where you're most tired. And where you're most tired is the place that you're fighting hardest to prove yourself. And I love this idea that what if the right you know, cuz you might you look at the Pharisees and, and like, like we've said before, there can be a tendency to see them as the bad guys in Scripture. But this is not the case. They're the they're the Bible believers. They're the people that are taking, you know, they're the people that are taking scripture seriously. So when you hear Jesus say, you're gonna have better righteousness than them. You go, like, I can't do that. How does that? How does that even work? Right? So you start to realize that what Jesus is saying is not better and more is better different is an

John Andrews   21:16  
absolutely, it's absolutely. And that

David Harvey  21:19  
to me is so often what we see in Scripture is that Jesus isn't saying all I'm just gonna take the game and turn up to 11 to make it even harder. He's actually saying, No, it's not more, it's different. I think you see that in his language about holiness. It's about a different perception on holiness. It's about a different procession on salvation. And here, it's a different perception, which is really the bombshell of chapter 20s parable of the vineyard workers, isn't it? Yeah, totally.

John Andrews   21:48  
I think what's fascinating, David, like, as we've done with a number of parables, I think there is a dynamic context to our parable from chapter 19. And in chapter 19, if if if you look at a modern translation of the Bible, there's a story that's generally entitled, The rich young man starts from around about verse 16, interestingly, in the Matthew version, follows a little story about Jesus in children, and that keeps popping up in our conversations that we've been having. But of course, you've got this incredible story of this rich young man who, who essentially comes to Jesus and asked the question, What do I need to do to have eternal life? And in fact, Jesus sort of doesn't initially answer the question, because the young man says, Teacher, what good thing must I do to to internal, hard to get eternal life? And he says, Why do you ask me about what is good? Jesus replied, there is only one who is good, if you want to enter life, obey the commandments. And so Jesus sort of gives the standard, okay, here's, here's the commandments, obey them sort of answer. But then the old man goes, Well, Which ones? Now, the answer of Jesus is stunning. In that of the, of the 10, great commandments, the 10, great words of Jesus, Jesus refers to five of the six human commandments. So just to go through them for our listeners, he says, Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony and Honor your father and mother almost in sort of reverse order. It's quite funny. He does that. And you've got no, the real sharp lips there among those will spot which one he has not referenced, which is the command of do not covet your neighbor's stuff, essentially. So it's the 10th commandment, actually. So you've got this big moment where Jesus goes, he says, well, which ones do I need to keep? And Jesus says, Well, here they are. And he lists five out of the six and doesn't reference covetousness in the context of material gain. And the young man responds, and he says, but all these I have kept, right? Serious that all these I have kept. What do I still lack? All right, and it's like at that moment that Jesus goes, Okay, that's get to the one commandment that didn't reference I was trying to confront you, gently. I was trying to show you by the one I left out that that's what you needed to pay attention to. But now you've cornered me. Well, what do I still like

David Harvey  24:39  
and where somebody you know, you see you turn over the test paper, and the six areas for the test and you were really weak on one of them. And the five questions are not on the area your weekend. And he's like, bonus, I passed. And then Jesus goes, bonus question. Area six. Yeah.

John Andrews   25:00  
Absolutely. And Jesus says, Well, if you want to be perfect, interesting word they're complete, whole, leaning into this idea. Well, you've just told me that you've kept the whole law. I mean, you said, I've kept all these things, right. So again, remember our nuanced conversation where we're talking about self righteousness, we're talking about people leaning into their own sense of justice, their own interpretation of this, he's just said to Jesus, well, I've kept all those. And so Jesus says, Okay, then if you want to be complete, if you want to, like have the full set of the laws, then go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, you'll have treasure in heaven, in any sense, come follow me. And of course, first 22, when the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. And it's the reaction of the disciples at that point, which is quite striking, because Jesus then says, look, it is hard, it's difficult for a rich person to enter the kingdom. And we'll have that I have the needle stuff and the camel going through the eye of the needle, whether that's a literal reference to something in Jerusalem, or just Jesus being, being gloriously, you know, exaggerating in terms of just descriptively referring to it, yeah, a camel, an eye and the eye of a needle. And then the disciples say, well, who then can be saved? If, if you've just turned a rich man away, who then can be saved? And I think even the disciples are struggling with the idea, but wealth is a sign of God's blessing. This man is clearly a good man, he's kept the law. And yet, you're telling me you're telling us he's not complete? It's not. It's not as it should be. And, and exactly, it's walked away, and you've let him go. And of course, as Jesus brings that to a conclusion, then that's what he says to His disciples right at the end of that, but many who are first will be lost, and many who are lost will be first, the very last verse of chapter 19, which is a complete echo of chapter 20, verse 16, which is the end of our parable, where Jesus is at the end of our parable. So last will be first, on the first will be lost. I think some Hi, David, there's a link, there is the link. Jesus challenging people's view of their own sense of righteousness. For this rich young ruler, he his righteousness is affirmed by his wealth, that actually, I'm a wealthy person, this is a sign that God has blessed me, it's a sign of a good person, I've kept the law, all the laws you listed, I've kept. And Jesus then pushes back on him, and says, look, you actually think you're first. But you're in danger of being lost on those who maybe don't see themselves in the light that you see them, who are feeling that they're lost, they're going to be promoted to the first and I think there's something in that which leans into this parable of the vineyard because if you look at verse 20, it's it It feels like a natural next stage for the kingdom of heaven is like, and I, it almost feels to be that Jesus is carrying on that conversation. For me, it's

David Harvey  28:27  
classic Jesus, isn't it? It's, I'm going to say something really controversial. It's going to be hard to get your head around. And just in case, you've not entirely grasped what I was about to say that's really controversial. Here's a really controversial parable to help you understand the really controversial thing I've just said. And so the two connecting points for me that are interesting, is, is this line from the land owner in verse 15, of chapter 20. Right? Joy? It's one of my favorite lines in the whole of Jesus's parables. It translates in in some translations generally. Are you envious, because I am generous? Right? So you've had one parable, we're sorry, one interaction where the question is,

Unknown Speaker  29:15  
well, let's

David Harvey  29:16  
talk about your covetousness that you're really let's talk about your envy. Let's talk about how I mean and just think about the beautiful tie in of what we're talking about here, john, talk about how you don't have enough money, right? So you've not committed adultery, you've not killed anyone, you've honored your father and mother. But you don't have enough Do you? Like if you were to if you were to switch this into modern day language, a guy comes to Jesus, he goes, I've done this, I've done that, then the next thing And Jesus says to him, but do you have enough? If you can stop worrying about whether you've got enough income Follow me, then you inherit eternal life? And the man goes away sad, because he didn't have enough right. So then we Flip now to a new parable. And in the parable, all of a sudden, it seems like gifts are being given out indiscriminately, no, they're not being given out according to the rules, like Jesus is saying, like, imagine this situation. Imagine an employer who then just paid everybody the same regardless of what work they did. Well, that can't be right. We struggle with that no matter what way you look at this, this is going to cause somebody a problem. And then Jesus goes back to us. Well, let's go back to this question of envy. Has your envy come? Because I'm generous, right. And it's interesting in the language that's actually used behind the English here is this language of evil eye, right, which was this very kind of kind of superstitious belief almost in the ancient world, that, that people could have this thing called evil eye, and it let let all sorts of darkness into their life, something left there by the time of Jesus, evil eye gets used as a sort of shorthand for this notion of envy. But then the word This is really important point here, the word that Jesus that we translate generous, is literally the word good, right? And this idea of goodness in the ancient world always was connected to notions of charitable pneus. And charity, you know, so when you hear the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, you know, and one of them is goodness, it's about good works. They're about what do we do? So So are you going to bring evil eye? Are you going to let the darkness of your soul come out? Because I'm charitable, because I'm generous. And you now realize, I think the connection bounces way along, that we're realizing it's almost hung in the disciples questions. Well, wait a minute, that what about us? You know, how do we, how do we inherit the kingdom? Because we're, we're clearly not blessed. We're poor, right? We don't even we don't even have anywhere to stay Jesus. So our case to prove that we are blessed is really limited, right? And but bearing in mind, everything's getting turned upside down in the gospels, isn't it? So how do we and then Jesus gives the question, well, it's impossible. But with God, nothing's impossible, right? It's only possible with God. So So now you start to see, this has been my take on this. Now you start to see the point that Jesus is making to the young rich man is, what must I do to inherit eternal life? We're back to the same question that we talked about in the Samaritan episode. Well, if you want something to do, says, Jesus, here's something to do. Give all your money away. Just give it all away and give it to the poor. But the point is that I think when you see the second part of this conversation that Jesus has with the disciples is then actually, that wouldn't even work either. It's actually impossible unless grace finds us. So now you go to this pub, or what's the kingdom of God like? Well, it's just going to look absolutely unfair. If you think that the things that you do are activating the reward, you know, and it's interesting, the language, the language of wages, is also the language of reward in in the Greek. So it's quite fascinating. The sense of you thought, like, I'm putting words in the landowner here. Oh, boy, did I get what's going on here? This is the landowner, you thought that you came here, and you earned the reward based on what you did for the day. That was completely wrong. You were just here, I'm the one that gives out the generosity. I'm the one that's pouring this out. You could have hung around till five o'clock and come in at the last hour, and you still would have found me to be generous. So again, it's that beautiful twist of Jesus, that the key character, isn't the person fighting for the righteousness? Isn't the person trying to earn it? The person seeking enoughness it's the characteristics of the vineyard owner.

John Andrews   33:43  
That's actually the key point. Oh, totally uninfected. As you were talking there about, you know, evil AI in the context of that literal translation. It totally flipped me over back to the Sermon on the Mount again, where Jesus references this fairy idea. He says in Matthew six, I just flipped it up. It's just incredible. Don't don't stir up your sales treasures on earth where moth destroy and thieves break in and stupids to store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where those things don't happen For where your treasure is. There your heart isn't it he says this The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of laying. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. And then he concludes by this idea, no one can serve two masters and it's getting hit the one and love the other, devoted to one and despise the other You cannot serve both God and money and within the Hebrew culture and Hebrew language, the idea there would be of iron Tovar, good eye and iron raw Baduy, but it's it's not This is the Yeah, this is it's it's a literal translation. It's this this idea that you are seeing the world a certain way. And I think that's at the heart of Jesus great challenge on why the parables are such a tool in that he's constantly trying to help his audience see differently. So the rich young ruler comes to him, he sees things a certain way. Jesus is trying to flip that the parable of the workers in the vineyard, they see the application of what is right, and just a certain way, but the master does it a different way. And what's really fascinating David, I remember when we were talking about Luke 15, and the parable of the last things, and you really got quite excited about verse two, and the marine of the Pharisees. And of course, we get this exact idea from these group of workers that they they murmured literally murmured against what's real quite strong, isn't it? They murmured against this. The landowner, it's not just all well, you know, a difference of opinion. This is a serious controversy. Within that and even even how the landowner responds when he calls him friend, it's, it's not really a term of friendship. It's also Hey, mate, we're in Belfast weather, hey, hey, man, hey, mate, you know which it it's like, friendly, but you're not my friend. So even the language of the landowner sort of responds to the murmuring of these people and their murmuring, because they can't see how this is just they cannot see why this is fair. So So flip that back to the rich young ruler, the disciples cannot see how this kingdom is going to work, if you're going to turn dine rich, young rulers who keep the law. All right, he struggling on one of the commandments, but who doesn't struggle. But of course, that's that wasn't the point Jesus was making. Jesus wasn't saying, Hey, you know, you haven't really capitalized he's saying, you actually can't keep the law. The whole point of this is, if you think your righteousness and justice, when your righteousness is down to your ability to keep the law under for God's justice to you, is because you keep the law, you're completely missing the point. And as if to make that point, he he says, here's the bloke Turn it up at five o'clock in the afternoon, and he gets paid exactly the same as the guy who rocked up at six o'clock in the morning. That is not fair. yet. It is just and I love, I love the tension of that. I love that that messes with our heads, it messes with the rules, it messes with my view of how the world works. And, and the landowner is literally challenging. The iron bra, the Bard, I have his workers, he's saying you're seeing this wrong. And because you're seeing it that way, your whole world is filled with darkness. Whereas if you see it my way, your world will be filled with light. And I in Matthew's Gospel, I cannot feel but see that link to back to Matthew chapter six, I think I think that's it's

David Harvey  38:36  
hanging around in there. It's interesting, I was just thinking of Proverbs 22, verse nine, that was familiar would be to Jesus, these listeners, the person with a good eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor, that can again digging into that notion of the connections that are going on there. And if you are on a quest for self righteousness. The problem is even if you do get it perfectly, right, you see yourself as a 6am worker, and you therefore judge yourself badly against the 5pm workers. And you see that like there's a terrifying phrase in here. If you've committed your life to be the best and you've committed your life to do everything correctly, and then this you have made them equal to us at 20 verse 12. Well, you know, you have made them equal to us, at the heart of the human soul. One of the things of grace that terrifies us is exactly that.

John Andrews   39:36  
You know, it's it's brilliant. I mean, I think that is one of the most powerful statements as I was reading it. I tried to emphasize that statement. You have made so so our new wants the older brother on the pig hugging brother of Luke seven of Luke 15. You've got exactly this son of yours. It's an echo Have all of that language

David Harvey  40:01  
has, dare you?

John Andrews   40:02  
How dare you? How dare you associate, you know that the Pharisees and the tax collector, I'm glad I'm not like him. And this is the, I think the great challenge that I think is coming across in both the story of the young, rich ruler, as he's often called into this parable, the rich young ruler actually sees himself as positioned as worthy of this position. As someone who is not even like the followers of Jesus, he's better than the followers of Jesus. He's better educated, he's a better social standing. And actually, his social standing, leans into the fact that he's blessed by God. And Jesus is I'm sorry, I'm sorry,

David Harvey  40:47  
dark like

John Andrews   40:48  
this. This is not how this works. It doesn't work like this. I love what captain said, I don't know you'd love cabin. So I had a look at his, his, his chapter on this parable on David, there is a quote, it's just world class. He says this, if the world could be saved, by bookkeeping, it would have been saved by Moses, not Jesus. Boom. And that's, I think, I think See, book keeping in both of these stories would give us a different answer. Yes, wouldn't it like book keeping for the rich young ruler means he's in on like, even some of the disciples of Jesus, there's no, there's no chance they're going to be in because at multiple levels, they are lost? Yeah. Whereas at societal level, he's first. Alright. And then bookkeeping. When it comes to the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The guys that rock up at six o'clock, they are like stonkingly hoppy, because they're going home with a barrel full of money. If it's a denarius for the last hour of the day, but that's not how it's working. And, and the last one, ends up being first. And, and the same way that Jesus says to his young disciples, because Peter says, look, Lord, we've given up everything for you in, in comparison to this situation with the rich young ruler, what, you know, we've we've let go of and Jesus said, Listen, if you've let go of it, then God will reward you stay the course, walk, because the last will be first and the first will be last because bookkeeping is not going to balance the books. It's the justice, generosity, Grace and righteousness of the landowner

David Harvey  42:46  
OF THE LORD OF THE LAW himself, who will balance the books ultimately, and I, I just wow, like for me, the writer extraordinaire, when it comes to this in modern times is john Barclay. He, he's written this beautiful little booklet in the grove series. It's I think it's like 30 pages long. This Google is called Paul and the subversive power of grace. And, and he he does this thing. Like anybody could read it Barkley's in 30 pages. He's taken a book that he wrote, which I think is about 700 pages long. And he's distilled it down into 30 pages. I mean, there's a work of genius. And I think anybody should buy this book, I think it's, it's, it's a matter of pennies. In that sense. You can buy the E book, or you can buy it in the print copy. And he will help you wrestle with what's actually going on in this parable. He looks at it throughout the whole New Testament as the subversive power of grace. This is this word can be this word can be obviously be misused. But the grace that Jesus is presenting us to us here is subversive, right? And so what Barkley does, and this is really important for us, I think, as Christians is you've probably grown up within Protestant tradition anyway, hearing about grace as free, right? And what we've done is, we've come to the conclusion that free means no strings attached, right? And free means without cost. But actually, if you look at the New Testament, what it means by grace being free is it really means unmerited. Yeah. So Barclays the phrase that he uses is to understand whenever the Bible talks about grace in the New Testament, it's a gift given without regard to the worth and value of the person receiving it, right. And that's what's going on in this parable. Well, wait a minute, we've done this. We've worked the whole day. Well, wait a minute, this generosity. Are you envious because I'm generous? This generosity isn't based on who you are. It's based on who Jesus is. Just so good. So I've tried to explain this like this john with a little kind of a little hopefully memory piece with someone. And so I'd say like this, it's the transition from because and therefore to dis spite and never nevertheless, right? So, so because and therefore that's how that's the world we live in, right? That's how we even do gifts. Hey, john, here's your gift, because it's your birthday, because you're my friend, therefore, I have bought you this gift. Okay? At which point A few months later, you come back to me and you go, Oh, yeah, because you are also my friend. And because it is your birthday, therefore, I have now bought a gift to you, right? And we say it's a gift. But if one birthday, I miss your birthday, you go well, what happened to David right? At which point we realize isn't really a gift in terms of free will, we definitely know it has strings attached, I buy you this Christmas gift, kind of on the assumption that you're going to buy one for me. And if you don't believe me on that, think about the social shame of when somebody turns up to your house at Christmas with a gift and you don't have one for them, you're scrambling around in the back trying to conjure something up. So we live in a world of because and therefore when it comes to gifts, so we always give gifts on the basis of of worth. It's how we do it. It's just how it ties us together. And when we naturally think about it that way, Jesus starts talking about gift, Grace and gift to the same word in the Greek. So it's helpful perhaps for listeners to know that when Jesus talks about the gift of God, he doesn't ever deal in because in Therefore, he did deals in despite a nevertheless. So because in therefore says I was here at six o'clock in the morning, I want more because of that. And Jesus's responses, despite the fact that these guys came at five, nevertheless, they get a whole day's salary. And I think if we can, if we can like when we hear about grace and wonder, because sometimes the whole language of free grace people because well, that means I can do whatever I want. That means that's not what Jesus is talking about. He's saying you get this gift, and who you are, isn't important in how God gives that gift out. So whether you're 5pm or 6am, you meet a generous God. And I'm sure when Barkley talks about that in his little book, I just think it's so helpful for us to grasp and almost make sense of the rich, young ruler. The problem is if you're not figuring out how God works, and the parable, they all kind of then start mashing together around this notion of grace.

John Andrews   47:20  
Absolutely no magnificent. And actually, again, David, as you were, as you were talking there, my my mind flipped again to the, to the magnificence of the Sermon on the Mount. And just that little moment where where Jesus says you've heard it said, Love your neighbor, but hate your enemy, but I tell you love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. And we often read that passage, again, almost in isolation. But if you if we are prepared to read that sort of statement, in the light of what you have just said, then what we're being called to do is exercise a similar grace. We're not we're not exercising something because someone merits it, or because we even like them. Or because we even, you know, feel that they deserve it. What we're doing it because it is just or it is right, or it is something beyond ourselves. And I love I love how Jesus, the little nuance he says he was on the say here, he says, He said he causes the song to raise on the evil and the good, sends the rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. And then he says, If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? That's exactly what you've just said, If I buy you a birthday present, and then you have to buy, that's reciprocity. That's just, that's not really, you know, and then he goes on to say this. Even the pagans do that even the tax collectors do, but then he says be perfect, therefore, as you're having father is perfect. So, so again, I what's really a little lightbulb moment for me there, as you were talking was I could just hold on a minute, if I was able to read the Sermon on the Mount No, through the lens of the conversation we've just had around the parable of the workers in the vein yard. On the rich young ruler, I'm seeing a different new ones, to an understanding of loving my enemy, and, and demonstrating generosity or God's grace. In an undeserved context, that we tend to just read that as well as enemy. And we see we see that in a very black and white sort of term. But if we see it through the lens of the vineyard workers, oh, my goodness, it's this idea. Well, well, the five o'clock guy didn't really deserve that denarius. But he got it anyway. Why did he get it? Well, not because he deserved it. But because the landowner is righteous. He sees God He's generous. And and, and Jesus is saying, could you be like that? Could you be perfect like that? Could you? Could you demonstrate that I can? Wow, that's just, I've just seen it a connection I've never seen before. Yeah, between that parable, and back into the Sermon on the Mount. So that's Wow. Wow. Come on.

David Harvey  50:20  
So what's interesting, john, is you're not alone in drawing these sort of ideas out of there. And this isn't this beautiful, but this is where scripture is just phenomenal that you that you can plan and study and prep and then in a conversation you find a pathway to something, you know else but but hey, listen, listen to this. Right. So this is in another one of Barclays books, actually, he points out in 1518. Okay, so we're, you know, we're really in recent times, in 1518, in the hybrid Heidelberg disputation at Martin luthers kind of final argument in this disputation, he says this, the love of God does not find, but creates what is pleasing to it. human love comes into being through what is pleasing to it. Right, so so so, Luther unpacks two points is God's love and human love, human love, find something pleasing, and then it loves it. God's love, come loves things into being right. So, so Barkley adds this comment on it. He says, human love is by attraction, we're drawn to something good, beautiful and useful, or something that's already present. We cannot love something we cannot see or imagine. And we turn away from evil and ugliness because it's unattractive. What attracts us, or repels us depends on of course, on our standards of value, we love only what we count as worthy of our love. By contrast, on the basis of the good news, but against the dominant philosophical tradition, Lutheran says that the love of God does not find something pleasing to it, which drives love God's love towards it, rather, it creates what is pleasing and good, and confers it and fashions it out of nothing. So Luther continues like this. Therefore, sinners are attractive to God, because they are loved, they are not loved, because they are attractive. This is the love of the cross born of the cross, which turns in the direction where it does not find good, which it may enjoy, but where it may confer good on the bad and needy person. Barclay concludes with this if you can cope with one more grace, in other words, is unconditioned. It does not depend on human accounts of worth, but he gives worth, the only worth that counts the worth of being loved by God. That leaves you in a bit of a mess.

John Andrews   52:57  
And maybe, maybe David, that helps us to understand this twice repeated phrase, so the last will be first. And the first will be you know, it's hard to make sense of that phrase, unless we're prepared to have the conversation we've just had, because, because none of that seems right. None of that seems just a none of that seems fair. But in the light of his, His love, His grace, His mercy and His goodness, are no the last will be first, the first will be lost suddenly. Makes a lot of sense. Because we're seeing it differently. Stunning. I'm literally overwhelmed emotionally by by that last conversation. That's Yeah. Wow. I'm done.

David Harvey  53:50  
I'm not doing their job.

John Andrews   53:51  
Yeah, yeah, come on.

David Harvey  53:58  
Okay, so that was Episode 12. Thanks so much for listening, and we hope you enjoyed it. If you want to get in touch with either office about something we said, you can reach out to us on podcast, to tex.com or by liking and following the to text podcast on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. If you did enjoy the episode, we'd love it if you left a review or a comment where you're listening from. And if you really enjoyed this episode, why not share it with a friend. Don't forget, you can listen to all our podcasts at two texts.com or wherever you get your podcast from. But that's it for this episode. We will be back tomorrow. So until then, goodbye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai