Autogenerated by Descript.com

[00:00:00] David: So John, we returned to acts chapter four where Peter and John are. Are facing a kind of a trial of sorts where they're being asked to defend their standing on, on Jesus and the resurrection, which has led to the, to, to the raising of this man's strength. 

[00:00:20] So that he's now walking again. And, and as we talked about in our last episode, The tension is not so much around this man's healing, but the way that Peter and John have interpreted this as evidence of the resurrection of Jesus. And, and so we, we, we dug into that, but we're just gonna go back and, you, we're assuming you've listened to the, the previous episodes. 

[00:00:40] So we're still in the same part of the text. Cause there's this beautiful little line. In acts chapter four in verse 13, where it says when they that's the that's the trial, the people are there for the trial, the, in Adrian and the, the temple guards and that when they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled ordinary men, they were astonished. 

[00:01:02] And they took note that these men had been with Jesus. Since they could see the man who had been healed, standing there with them, there was nothing they could say. So, so you've got this fascinating scene of a man who used to not be able to walk who is walking. And somehow these men who have been with Jesus it's, it's a, it's a brilliant little image. 

[00:01:26] Isn't it? 

[00:01:27] John: It's it's superb. And, and it's really important to think for our listeners to understand that this would've been an extremely intimidating context for Peter and John. So they are facing 71 experts. 

[00:01:43] David: Hmm. 
 

[00:01:43] John: Okay. So 70 members of the Sanhedrin elders made up of a mix of sades teachers, Pharisees, et cetera. the 71st person being the high priest themselves. It's a serious moment. And Peter and John have acquitted themselves so well that the San Hedron sort of don't really know what to do. So the they've got this double whammy idea that, that actually number one, the, that the man who was unable to walk is now walking and there he is, and they can't deny that. 

[00:02:19] So however that's happened, it's happened, but they're struggling to refute. Peter's. Argument. So, so they don't really know what to do. All they want to be able to do is shut down the Jesus conversation. So that's the primary thing they're worried about. They just need to shut down this convers, cuz later on it talks about them trying to stop Peter and John preaching in this name of Jesus. 

[00:02:45] Right. So, but actually. Let, let's not forget, Peter and John have managed themselves in the most amazing way filled by the spirit, but also the word of God burning in them. And they have acquitted themselves brilliantly in front of 71 experts sitting in a semi circle all around them. And that's fairly intimidating. 

[00:03:07] And Peter and John would know. How intimidating that would be, cuz that's their world. And, and you get this gorgeous then Dr. Luke throws this in this gorgeous idea where he says, and I love the language when they saw the boldness or the courage of Peter and John. So there's something in Peter and John's approach that is, it is showing courage and boldness and realize they were unschooled and ordinary men. 

[00:03:37] David: Mm 
 

[00:03:38] John: They were astonished and took note that they, these men had been with Jesus. So a couple of gorgeous ideas that are really worth our consideration, courage and boldness. I think that's worth a thought. We could jump, jump off on that unschooled in ordinary. What an earth does that mean? And yet they noted that these men had been with Jesus what's going on there. 

[00:03:59] So there's, there's. There's real challenge that Sanhedrin they're seeing, they're seeing men not being disrespectful, but being bold. 

[00:04:09] David: Mm-hmm 

[00:04:10] John: And they're seeing unschooled, ordinary men, whatever that means put in an argument forward. That now for some of them reminds them of the rabbi from Galilee. There's a, there's, there's a, there's a, a connection there. 

[00:04:28] And some of them are gone that they had been with. They took note that they had been with Jesus because, because Jesus, for whatever else he was to this Sanhedrin, he was an outstanding. so first 13 really is a bit of a moment and it's, it's worth a bit of consideration before we move on. 

[00:04:49] David: This idea of courage and boldness spreads through all of chapter four. Doesn't it? I was, I was noticing if we just jump ahead very briefly to verse 29. When there's a prayer of the early church and they see now Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. 

[00:05:10] And this it's the same word again. Great courage. So I, I think that's really interesting that this is. It, there, there's a level where the people are seeing the boldness of Peter and John, but they're still always asking God for more boldness. And, and, and I think, reading more, the theme of acts, rather than just what's specifically in this very verse 13, but it's worth noting that the boldness here. 

[00:05:40] Comes from the spirit of God and the early church recognize that by verse 29. So very important to me that we don't read this verse 13 and say, oh, weren't Peter and John brave, how do we be brave, Peter and John seem to be very cognizant that their boldness comes from external to them. This is not. This is not them just getting tough. 

[00:06:06] This is not them becoming brave. They're confessing that this is the work of the holy spirit. You, you, you know that that's does that make sense? What I'm saying? It's the holy spirit. That's bringing this  

[00:06:18] John: totally. And actually it's born out in two verses later. If you look at verse 30, one, seeing word is used again. And it says in verse 31 and they, after they. 

[00:06:30] David: mm-hmm 

[00:06:30] John: place where they were meeting was shaken and they were all filled with the holy spirit and spoke the word of God, boldly, same word again. 

[00:06:39] David: Yes. 
 

[00:06:40] John: And, and in fact that same word finishes virtually the book of act. When you, when you flip to the very last verse of the book of X, we, we see a appall under house arrest, proclaiming the kingdom. Boldly. And, and, and I love the link, David, that, that there is this, this beautiful link between the work of the spirit and this courage boldness, and, and I, I think you're absolutely right in emphasizing that this is not just. 

[00:07:10] Peter as an, a type personality. This is not just Peter and John as two go-getters and, and Paul, well, Paul was just one of those like full on people. Wasn't they now, whatever their personality type and they may have well been, those type of personalities actually, when it comes to this boldness that is not relevant. 

[00:07:33] This boldness and courage is coming, not from their personality type, but it's coming from the power of the spirit. And, and I absolutely sort of love this idea of linking. These two things together in, in the most powerful way. So, so it's worthy of our consideration there. And some of this, maybe some of our listeners will have experienced the boldness that has come on them because of an engagement with the holy spirit. 

[00:08:05] That certainly has been my experience. I certainly wouldn't be doing some of the things that I would do. Because of my personality type. 

[00:08:13] David: mm-hmm 

[00:08:14] John: Uh, and I found myself in situations, in places in the name of Jesus that, that I wouldn't go if it was just left to me. 

[00:08:21] David: Mm-hmm 

[00:08:22] John: So the, the work of the spirit in my own life has definitely brought a courage and boldness that is beyond my personality. 

[00:08:30] It's beyond positive psychology. There's something else going on there. And I think what's interesting, the Sanhedrin spot that they spot. Hold on, we're dealing with something more. This is again, can I emphasize this? I don't think Peter's boldness or John's boldness must be interpreted as disrespect. 

[00:08:50] These men are being strong, but respectful. There's a courage and a boldness in what they're doing, but it's not an angsty disrespect, rebellion. This is a boldness that's rooted in the confidence of the spirit and not in some sort of angsty rebellious cause where they're just trying to stick one in the eye of the Sanhedrin. 

[00:09:13] David: in the United Kingdom, In the next few days, the new prime minister will wander into the house of commons and face prime minister questions for the first time. 

[00:09:24] By the time you're listening to this, it'll have already happened right now. Think about how nerve wracking that must be right to walk into that room with all of those people and face questions. And you've been training for this your whole life and Luke draws this contrast that these, these men have boldness. 

[00:09:42] But also like, we met Peter, he was on a fishing boat, he was not, with no disrespect intended to fishermen, but, but fishermen don't, don't argue with St. Hadron. That's not the, that's, if you've trained as a fisherman, you might be the best fisherman out there, but it's the stuff of nightmares to find yourself in a lecture hall at Cambridge university, with all of these professors in front of you or in the house of commons, answering those sort of question. 

[00:10:09] But for me, what's interesting. And I think this is obvious, John, but let's not miss it just because it's obvious. Luke has actually already given us the contrast. That proves what you're saying. If you go back to Luke chapter 22, we find Jesus. And I just, I, I love this when I was just thinking about this particular passage. 

[00:10:31] So verse 13 of acts, chapter four, they took note that these men had, and listen to the words, been with. Luke chapter 22 coming up towards the the, the crucifixion of Jesus. Peter is in the courtyard. And and, and there's a bit of, it's just counting right now, as I've said, this, John, this is badly planned, but I'm even just thinking of the geography. 

[00:10:53] Peter might not. This story in Luke 22 might not be happening that far away from, from where Peter is standing right now. And but I mean, there's no proof of that. It just struck me just then I thought, goodness, this is probably not far away. This man, the woman, the servant girl says this man was also. 

[00:11:11] With him. Right. but this time look at how he denied it saying woman. I do not know him. So, so we have, we have Peter in Luke 22. People saying, oh, he was with Jesus and Peter's response is no, he's not, no, I have nothing to do with this. Right now. We find in acts chapter four, after the arrival of the holy spirit, Peter was with Jesus. 

[00:11:38] And what we see is boldness and courage, the proclamation of the resurrection of the dead, the, the, the challenge, Peter replied, well, you be the judge, you decide because I'm not gonna stop speaking about what I've seen and heard. But in terms of, if you put Luke and X together as a one big story, only chapters before Peter was absolutely happy to not speak what he had seen and heard. 

[00:12:03] So I think this is further evidence that, that what we're seeing here, isn't just internal courage and transformation for Peter. Luke has allowed us to see the, the change in personality that the holy spirit has brought even is that. 

[00:12:20] John: Oh, it's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. And in fact, how do we quick Luke there, while you were talking about position Peter's denial and Luke takes place at the high priest house in the courtyard of the house. 

[00:12:32] David: yes, sure. It does. Yes. 

[00:12:33] John: So, so that would've been in the, in, in the general precinct. And of course, we're not clear where this meeting is being held. 

[00:12:40] This meeting may well have been held in the it's somewhere in the temple precinct or in a, in a designated area, but we're certainly in the vicinity.  

[00:12:48] David: They are arrested by the temple guard. So, and the temple guard's jurisdiction, this is a, the temple guards are trade off between the Romans. The Romans need to keep order in Jerusalem because they've oppressed and invaded the city. Jerusalem's not the easiest place to keep order. 

[00:13:05] Cuz all of the trouble seems to start in the temple and so the Romans want to put soldiers in the temple, but that's not gonna go down well, because we don't want Gentiles in the temple. So the temple guard is a kind of political trade off isn't it? Between the Romans and the, and the Jewish leaders that, okay. 

[00:13:23] What if we put our own soldiers in there and they'll work for you, but it's not you. So I. The temple guard would only have due restriction to put the apostles in jail within the temple. Areas of jurisdiction. So I think you, I think you're, you're in safe, guessing territory. Like you say, we can't say categorically, but I think it's, I think we're in the vicinity aren't we, which is really fascinating to think that you've got the sight of Peter going I'm with him. 

[00:13:52] But I, I, I don't want to defend him to now. People are still recognizing they he's with him, but I mean, I just, it's just, I just, I love the, I love those moments. 

[00:14:02] John: it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. And, and I love the link again. Can I cuz we, in our last podcast on this, we reflected on spirit and word. We reflected on. Not just the miracle, but link to the resurrection of Jesus, the truth, as well as the demonstration. And I think we see it again here in this little verse, there there's reference to the courage and boldness of Peter and John, and then they said they were unschooled and ordinary. 

[00:14:30] Now I have to say David. I, I love the unschooled word in the context of, of Greek, a grammar toss, literally without letter. I love that, 

[00:14:39] David: yes  
 

[00:14:39] John: this sort of idea that these, these are unschooled now, and of course, for our, for our. Listeners. I don't think even though, even though the idea of ordinary here comes from the, sort of the, the sense of, of IIOS one's own is a common person. 

[00:14:58] I don't think the Sanhedrin we're 

[00:15:00] David: is it worth John? Is it worth just noting that the Greek word you've been P polite there, but you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a little less P polite than you are that the Greek word that we translate ordinary is literally word ID taste. And I, I won't translate that for anybody, but. 

[00:15:15] John: Yes. Yes. Which of course from which we, we, we do get the word idiot. So, so you do have that, but, but I don't think the Sanhedrin are saying these men are stupid. I think they're saying, hold on a minute, there is a level. Of ability now in them, but yet we know they haven't been formally trained. 

[00:15:36] They haven't been schooled. They are ordinary. They are men in, in that sense, the word can mean of their own company. 

[00:15:44] David: mm-hmm 

[00:15:44] John: They're men who haven't been in the educated class. They haven't been with the scholars. They haven't been in the bed Midrash. Okay. So, so, so actually. Unschooled ordinary really reinforces the idea that these are men sort of untrained, but, but I love this idea, David, and I think it links to they, they saw that they, they took note that they had been with Jesus. 

[00:16:09] Is this a beautiful Luke and tip of the hat to Jesus himself? That Jesus. Clearly, even in his struggles teaching these young men. And there were some interesting moments in the three years that Jesus had with him, clearly something got through clearly something is now in the mind and hearts of Peter and John, to the extent that they are able to, by the power of the. 

[00:16:35] Boldly courageously speak. But with the, the, the taught word inside them, they are able to defend Jesus and I, for me, it's a, both, and I've argued for, for years and years and years. You can be spirit filled and have a PhD, right? You, you, it's not, it's not an either or it's a, both, and we can be filled with the spirit and with the boldness that only the spirit can give us, it doesn't come from who we are, but it comes from who he is. But we can also see the partnership of word in that, that actually we can be schooled by Jesus schooled by the word of God, in such a way that the two dynamic things come together. And I think we've got another beautiful length there to spirit word idea, unschooled. Ordinary man, but filled with boldness and the context that wraps all of it up is that they've been with Jesus. 

[00:17:34] Is that, is that too much, or do you think that's, that's a. 

[00:17:37] David: no, I think that's exactly what we're seeing and acts lives. Without some of the tensions that I think we have generated afterwards. The question I think this, this haunted aspect of Western Christianity anyway, is, is this pendulum swing between, should we be people of the spirit or people of the book and. 

[00:17:57] And I, I can't help, but think that the answer is, is, is yes. To, to, to, to, to both of the, to, to, to both of them. In in fact, I, I was just reading Cheryl Bridge's John's as a Pentecostal scholar in, in the us brilliant scholar. I dunno if you've ever encountered her work, but she, she said this the other day there. 

[00:18:17] No, she didn't say it the other day that I read this the other day there and, and she said it sometime before that, she said, Pentecostal understand the Bible as married to the work of the spirit in actualizing the presence of the living word in actualizing, the work of God in the healing of the creation in this work, the Bible brings about the real presence of Jesus. 

[00:18:40] And so, so I, I mean, I, I love that this, the Pentecostal understand the Bible is married to the work of the spirit in actualizing the presence of the living word. If, if that's not both end, right. And now, and I realize not all of our listeners are Pentecostal, but I would argue that you could take your denomination and, and put it into that, that word there and, and say, well, let me just say, Liz. 

[00:19:00] I need to understand the Bible as married to the work of the spirit. So I've got to invest myself in learning, invest myself in reading and studying and, and going to lectures into talking to clever of people than me, but also invest myself into the work of the spirit in my life and the two work together to bring about Jesus's transformation in me and ultimately, and hopefully in God's creation. 

[00:19:24] As a result of me being submissive to what God's doing. I mean, that's, that's how I sort of wanna try and I want to try and hold that tension together  

[00:19:32] John: Oh, it's lovely. And, and I think, and we may have alluded to this before, so please forgive me. We have touched on gazillions of things in our podcast together, but, but I think what you see in the glorious essence of creation. The spirit of God hovering over these formless empty waters, dark waters. And then the very next line is, and God said, 

[00:19:58] David: Yeah. 
 

[00:19:59] John: And this unmissable link that everything we're about to see now in creation is a combination of the spirit hovering, ready to act on the word and the word that is spoken. 

[00:20:10] It's just, it's beautiful. And God said, and God said, I mean, God speaks explicitly 11 times in Genesis chapter one. It's just amusing on God. And God said, and the implication is from verse two, that the hovering spirit. Can I say this as reverently as possible, the hovering spirit is ready to go on the command of the word. 

[00:20:33] David: yeah. 
 

[00:20:34] John: I think, I think in the baptism of Jesus, we've seen exactly the same thing. We've seen Jesus in the water of baptism and as he prayed, it says the spirit came on him and the father said to. And we, we, we've already alluded to that in, in the gospel's conversation we've had, so you get this beautiful spirit coming on Jesus 

[00:20:58] David: Mm-hmm 

[00:20:59] John: and the word of the father living in Jesus. 

[00:21:02] David: mm-hmm mm-hmm 

[00:21:04] John: and I think the book of act is, is driving that forward again. And he, I think this verse is a really beautiful confirmation of. 

[00:21:14] David: Mm-hmm 

[00:21:15] John: Here are unlearned, unschooled, ordinary men, people of their kind men. 

[00:21:24] David: mm-hmm 

[00:21:24] John: speaking the word of God to such an extent that the Sanh don't really know what to do next. They're a bit flumed the, the, the, the best they can do is reach for the, the hammer of okay. 

[00:21:38] Just stop saying that. Okay. That that's the, because they're not only hearing the word, but they are experiencing a boldness. And I think it's the boldness combined with the word that is deeply, deeply disturbing them now, cuz they really don't know how to handle this. They can't, this, this thing is out and they can't put the lid back on this box and that they're now struggling cause of the combination of both spirit and word. 

[00:22:08] And, and I think it's that combination of spur and word that, that the church of Jesus Christ must, must. Constantly hold onto and lean into David. I really, really believe that. 

[00:22:20] David: And the one, just to, just to add to your. Your list there, spirit and word, spirit, and word. We did a podcast on this a little while ago as well, but, but Jesus, of course his first recorded sermon. He begins with the Isaiah 61 and the spirit of the Lord is upon me to proclaim. Good news, spirit and word, so, so we see the spirit and word on Jesus's life. 

[00:22:42] We hear it in his sermons as well. But, but of course it's interesting as like, we love overlaying Lukin X together because I they're written by the same person. They are, prequel in sequel. Notice of course that the response then of. The, the powers in this place is what powers always do. 

[00:23:02] We don't like this. So how do we stop it? And how do we stop it using fear. And remember Peter, back in Luke 22, Peter's following it distance he's afraid. And, and fear has been a problem for Peter in the past. But now with the spirit, we see this different response, but I think it's interesting that. The powers come in and they say, I mean, I say what a statement, everyone. 

[00:23:28] This is verse 16 of act, chapter four, everyone living in Jerusalem knows they've performed a notable sign and we cannot deny it. But to stop this thing from spreading any further amongst the people, we must warn them to speak no longer to anyone in his name. I mean, that is quite a statement. something has clearly happened here. 

[00:23:49] We're not going to object that something has clearly happened. But we have to stop it. At which point you see this, this separation from. And I think Luke is drawing this contrast for us to see that it is possible to, to be in the presence of the work of the spirit and make a choice. It's not obvious that just because you encounter the work of the spirit, you'll make the right choices, which is serves as a little warning for all of us. 

[00:24:19] As we work through this book, doesn't. 

[00:24:21] John: So true. So true. And, and I think, I think that that powerful idea is really emphasized in both the reaction of the Sanhedrin to this moment and the reaction of Peter and John, you've got this as you've alluded to verse 14 and 16 the man. Being healed, standing there with them. 

[00:24:40] There was nothing they could say. And then it goes on and says, in verse 16, everyone living in Jerusalem knows they have performed a notable sign and we cannot deny it. But then if you look at the contrast to that in verses 19 to 20, when Peter and John are told, shut up about Jesus, it says this, but Peter and John replied, which is right in God's eyes to listen to you or to. 

[00:25:02] you be the judges as for us and note this, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard. So actually you get a gorgeous contrast between Peter and John saying what we have seen and heard. We're gonna talk about, we're not gonna deny the Sanhedrin are saying what we've seen and heard. We're gonna shut it down. 

[00:25:26] David: yes. Yeah. 

[00:25:27] John: And there's a 

[00:25:27] David: seen and heard the same thing. 

[00:25:29] John: Absolutely. We have seen and heard to see him thing, but our worldview doesn't allow for this resurrected Jesus to be part of the story. Therefore, even though he's standing right in front of us, this healed man. And even though we admit that there is a boldness on Peter and John, we've never seen before, and there is a word in them that we're struggling to refute. 

[00:25:56] We're still gonna deny. 

[00:25:57] David: yeah. 
 

[00:25:58] John: We're still gonna deny it. And, and I think that is ultimately one of the most powerful, paradoxical type moments that you can have two people seeing. And in some ways hearing the same thing and one embracing it and the other denying it. And that of course, is the glorious and troublesome reality of the free will that the Lord has given is in these moments. 

[00:26:23] Isn't. 
 

[00:26:24] David: it. It's interesting that the little line that, that Peter drops in. In verse 19, which is right in God's eyes to listen to you or to listen to him. And then he says, is you be the judges, right. 

[00:26:36] John: Yeah. Very 

[00:26:37] David: and, and, and it's interesting though, that then he draws the contrast. As for us, we cannot help speak about what we've seen and heard. 

[00:26:42] You mentioned that already, but I think it's interesting that what Peter is essentially saying is that he will refuse to be the judge. Right. And, and this, I was thinking about say I was thinking about, I was, I was reading this piece that. Drew attention to something. Carl Bart said, I like a Carl Bart quote every now and again, John, but, but, but here here's a quote from, from, from Carl Bart in his church. 

[00:27:02] Dogmatics it says this, it is our basic sin to take the place of the judge to try to judge ourselves and others, all other sins, both small and great derive. Ultimately from this. And then he says, Jesus took our place as judge. He took our place as the judged. He was judged in our place and he acted justly in our place. 

[00:27:29] So, so Bart would seem to say about a passage where, where Peter says you'd be the judges. This almost is the trap of Peter's response. Is that actually, if we are going to confess as Jesus followers, we confess. Jesus was the judge and was judged and has taken from us the responsibility of judgment. And therefore our threat is always to be drawn back into being the judge. 

[00:27:58] But as this passage shows, we're very bad at it. because, because we can actually look at the truth and still choose to judge differently. So, so what Peter's saying here is a beautiful. For us as disciples of Jesus is that, listen, I am not getting involved in judgment. I'm gonna push it off and I'm gonna. 

[00:28:21] And just follow Jesus with what he's doing and let him do all of the judging, which is gonna be huge for the rest of acts. Because in a few chapters time, there's gonna be a lot of people getting involved in the Jesus movement that Peter's going to want to judge . And because he's been trained to judge them, and yet he's going to fight through the power of the spirit as we all should to keep refusing. 

[00:28:45] To judge what God is clearly doing. I, I, I think it's, it's stunning writing from Luke and I think a really deep theological discipleship for us 2000 years later.