From Dungeon to Devotion | Disruptive Presence 84

David: 0:05

Hi and welcome to the Two Texts podcast. I'm here with my co-host, john Andrews, and my name is David Harvey. This is a podcast of two friends from two different countries meeting every two weeks to talk about the Bible. Each week, we pick one text to talk about, which invariably leads us to talking about two texts, and often many more. This season we're taking a long, slow journey through the book of Acts to explore how the first Christians encountered the disruptive presence of the Holy Spirit. So, john, in the true spirit of Two Texts, the last episode, we read nine verses, got through one and a half verses, cried at scripture and then had to come back and take a second attempt a few days later. And if you're still with us after what we've now just realised is 140 episodes and 100,000 downloads, you probably just know this is how it works, right.

John: 1:05

Yes, absolutely. And if you were with us last time then you will know we were both blubbering Rex, david, red, sam 31, and I was it. I was gone, he was gone, and I'm not quite sure how we made it to the end of the podcast and my goodness, what an episode that was. If you haven't listened to the last one, please, please, please do that, and you might need a box of tissues if you're anything like us to get through that episode. So there we are. There we are. Praise the.

David: 1:31

Lord. And so jumping back into the text then, and we read it in the last episodes we won't read it again just now but where we sort of left things is this beautiful line in verse 27 of Acts 16, when the jailer woke up. And I can't feel. I can't help but think that's a loaded sentence from Luke, because we are now going to hear the story of the jailers waking up.

John: 1:57

Yeah, it's gorgeous, it is. And again, a little, you love the little sort of connectors. Lydia has her heart open. The jailer wakes up. You get these little moments and this, of course, is going to become a dynamic spiritual awakening for this man. And as he wakes up, literally by the end of the story, he has woken up spiritually, he's come to a realization of Jesus and his whole household, a bit like Lydia's. This whole household is baptized as well. So a dramatic, a dramatic moment.

John: 2:34

But of course, the introduction into that dramatic moment, David, is this really uncomfortable moment. He drew his sword, was about to kill himself, and I know that might be obvious for some of our listeners, but there is a very serious undertone here. This wasn't just a suicidal jailer. He was probably looking at all the open doors, hearing in the darkness, chains hitting the floor and thinking everybody's gone, and if everybody's gone, I'm dead. Anyway. He would have.

John: 3:06

I mean, we've already seen in the book of Acts, haven't? We were the guard put in charge of Peter were executed by Herod, forfeit at their own lives, and this was a bit of a practice in the days as an incentive to make sure jailers did their job. If prisoners went a wall. They, they could, and often did, forfeit their old lives. So so this man isn't just waking up in a bad mood thinking I don't want to live any. This is, this is a man realizing actually, if we get the daybreak, I'm going to die anyway, so it might as well die by my own hand. So it is a. It's a truly dramatic moment in the context of the text here.

David: 3:46

It connects as well to what we've said and we're asking the listeners to tie two or three episodes together now. But remember, this whole story has an economic undertoned to it. There's the, the, the wealthy Lydia, the slave girl who is earning money. The, the, the arrest of Paul and Silas, because they have threatened the economy in that way, and of course so. Therefore, invariably the people that end up in prison are are threatening the economy in some way.

David: 4:18

In those days, even the prison systems are. I mean, I'm not sure how well our prison systems do in the modern world, to be totally honest, but, avoiding that minefield of a conversation, most prisons in the ancient world were about economic threat. Because if you were, if you were a violent threat, that was perceived to be beyond what was acceptable. I mean, it's a very violent world, but if you're running around murdering people, you don't go to prison. In the ancient world, somebody just kills you. If you get caught, you're done. So you're only in prison if you're an economic threat, and I think it's worth us being alert to that, that that is the thread that's continuing to tie this through, that our pursuit of our own economic safety is about to take another life right. It's held one woman's life in in a bad situation and and we were okay with that and it's about to take another life here as well. But the spirit will continue to intervene, which is this gorgeous sense of the oppressed slave girl in the. I mean, please don't hear what I'm not saying, but the oppressed, oppressed slave girl in the eyes of the spirit is as oppressed as the oppressed jailer. They both need freedom, right, and it's not lost to me.

David: 5:39

When the jailer woke up and I think Luke's just having fun with us, by the way, I think he's just like I'm going to tell this story. I'm going to tell this story well, because I think Luke is aware people are going to tell this story again. The jailer woke up, so there's that little double nuance there. And then verse 29,. The jailer called for lights. It's like it's like there's got to be some double entendre going on there of, of, of. On one level, I'm waking up and another level, I need some light in this situation. But I was amazed I was amazed, john, that that nobody's left.

John: 6:12

All of these prisoners are still there.

John: 6:17

Yes, it is. It is a bit of a moment whether they're all a bit like the jailer, just in complete shock and still trying to work out what's going on, and disorientated it is. It is quite a remarkable moment and of course, we don't know how many prisoners we're talking about here, no, or how, the how the prison it was was constructed in that, in that sense, so you, you're, you're, it's there with, but it is, it is remarkable, it's almost that sort of something's happened in it. There's that moment of what's just happened and we're all sitting there waiting for something else to happen. And that seems to be how, how Luke writes this beautiful story. And and I love this and I have to say in the same way, that we were moved by just thinking about Paul and Silas praying and singing hymns to God. I am deeply moved by Paul's response, so I'm going to struggle to get through this again. So, like Paul shouted, don't harm yourself, we are all here. I mean seriously.

John: 7:20

And again, when you put that into the context of what Paul and Silas have been through, you read the text carefully. They've been severely flogged, they have been beaten, they have been stripped we assume stripped either down to the loincloth or stripped naked. They are in the inner cell, put there by this man and, to use your lovely language that you've been using, nailed to the cross, nailed to the stocks, a chain to the stocks. And yet, and yet, the power of the gospel speaks, and and out of the darkness, paul says don't, don't harm yourself, don't do it. And I just sometimes, david, I think you know what, if Paul hadn't spoke? It's just that it's an amazing moment where, if they hadn't sang and prayed, the prisoners would never have heard something.

John: 8:17

And we don't know what the prisoners did with that, but if Paul hadn't spoken, the jailer would have killed himself and and like, and it's just to me, it's the power of the gospel in the darkness, speaking out of the darkness into this man's life, saying don't do it, there's, we're not, we're all here, don't harm yourself. And I just read that and I go wow, and it's lovely because you've alluded to it. It's then that the jailer calls for lights and he rushes in and fell trembling. Where have we seen the fall trembling before? In our, in our preview? That's a, that's a gorgeous nuance, so often, of of Jesus falling trembling and. And this man is responding to hope in the darkness, because Paul speaks up and I I find that one of the most moving bits of the story.

David: 9:16

My goodness, yeah, it's, it's, there's so much. I mean that's right, and I really mean it when I say I think Luke's having fun with us because he's. He's alluding. You know what I mean. He's alluding to so many things that that, if you just spend time, like I was thinking, like there's, should help me here because, again, as we've said before on two texts, we're not scripting this. So this is coming to me.

David: 9:47

Paul calls out in a loud voice right, so, which is which? Jesus does the same thing to Lazarus. Yeah, we do. He also does the same thing when he says my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And then he also calls out in a great voice when he says come to me all who are thirsty, doesn't he? That's a. He stands up on the last and greatest day of the feast, and so there's this. He also, by the way, ironically, going back to our last episode in Luke 23,. He calls out in a loud voice into your hands, I commit my spirit. Yeah, beautiful. So there's this. I don't know. I was just struck when you were saying that Paul's.

David: 10:26

Paul's shouting out in a loud voice, but this is something we see Jesus do on multiple occasions. He shouts into the darkness of Lazarus he's tomb. He shouts into the darkness of his own crucifixion. He shouts do you know what I mean? Don't build your house on this, listener. But the language that in a great voice is the Greek that Paul shouts out. I mean it just. It feels like the work of Jesus that Paul's doing. I think that's what I'm trying to say, that Luke wants us to see. Paul here is doing Jesus' work, and do not do bad to yourself. We are all in place, right? I mean, my goodness, he's beautiful, isn't?

John: 11:06

it. It's absolutely that's what I felt. It feels like. If there's a statement that sort of encapsulates the good news of Jesus, that encapsulates the spirit of Jesus, that encapsulates everything that the gospel is designed to do, it's this, because Paul is in the darkness, he's in the inner cell, he's in the muck and the mire of that world, and yet he's free and out of his own freedom. He's serving, he's giving to this man, he's speaking up. This becomes a powerful opportunity and I, just my imagination runs wild. It's out of the darkness, this piercing shout comes Don't do it, don't do it, do not kill yourself, do not harm yourself. We are all here and this is an amazing moment, then, of transformation, because Paul speaks up and I just I find it as a, as almost a microcosm of the gospel, of the biblical narrative. You have God I don't wanna drive this too hard in the Genesis story speaking, okay.

David: 12:27

And let's speak. I was looking at John one as you were saying that.

John: 12:30

Absolutely well, that's where we were going next, probably, he in him was life and the life was the light of him. It's this, it's all of this is wrapped up, that out of the darkness and into the darkness the gospel speaks and, of course, in the Genesis account and even in the incarnation. In the Genesis account, you assume God is in the darkness, speaking, speaking to it, and Jesus inhabits the darkness in order to bring the light. And here's Paul, in the darkness, speaking, speaking these words of hope. Just, I just think to go.

David: 13:09

I mean the continuing your John, when he was life and the life was the light of all people. The light shines in the darkness. The darkness did not overcome it. And then, in verse nine, the true light which enlightens everyone was coming into the world. And Paul says don't do harm to yourself, we're all here. And the jailer says you know, get some light. Oh, my goodness, come on and then notice. So he brings them outside and then he says to there's two things I wanna say. There's a forward look and a backwards look for a second. But so the backwards look what must I do to be saved? I mean, just gorgeous.

David: 13:53

This is exactly how they ended up in prison, right so where? A few weeks ago, in terms of the listener? But this slave girl is following them and she says these men are slaves of the most high God that are proclaiming to you a way of salvation. And that's what leads that false announcement of the gospel, is what leads to them being here. And yet, ironically, I was thinking to Joseph what you meant for harm, god will use for good, and it doesn't make the harm right, but it means that God is not cornered. God will not be cornered by our own evil machinations. And yet so here this jailer, this man who's bought in to protect the economy that Paul and Silas have disturbed in the spirit, ends up saying to them actually, show me the way of salvation. I mean, that's not lost on us, is it?

John: 14:47

No, absolutely stunning. It's absolutely stunning. And again, without making too strong a connection, which may not be there, but was he listening to them singing and praying? Do you know what I mean? Like, if we think about the construction of some of these prisons, the jailer's house would have been in close proximity, even within the prison precinct, connected adjoining rooms. Was he hearing something before as well? I mean, we don't know, but again, it might explain why. Then you get this very explicit request. What do I need to do to get this done? To be saved, and of course, it's just a remarkable moment of opportunity that's now presented. Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saving in this gorgeous and your household too. And again, we've already seen this in Lydia Lydia's household saved now. Now the jailer's household, whoever they are, how many, we don't know, but the jailer's household are also invited into this journey and invited to believe. It's amazing, it's so good.

David: 16:07

And then notice the forward look. John, I said there was a backwards look, so the backwards look takes us back to the original thing that got them in trouble. The English translations obscure this ever so slightly. Right, both the NRSV and the NIV sirs, what must I do to be saved? Right, but just worth knowing, as a listener, that whenever you see sir or sirs, the Greek behind that is often kuryos, which is what we would also translate Lord. So if you read this a little closer to that Greek nuance, of course the reason that matters I mean sirs is a fine translation.

David: 16:46

That is the meaning. It's just a meaning of respect. But if you just remember that it is Lord, the text reads like this and then he brought them outside and said to them Lord, what must I do to be saved? And they answered believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household. And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and all who are in his house. And I think those are one of those moments where I think it's worth knowing that there's a double use of a word going on here. Do you agree?

John: 17:15

Yeah, so good, so brilliant? Absolutely, no, no, totally get that and that is I've just checked, it's just following it as you're reading it there in the Greek and that is absolutely beautiful, beautiful. It really does stand out powerfully there. Yes, really really love the idea and I think it's important because the question is possibly unsaid, but definitely present.

David: 17:41

Luke, how is this demon being cast out of this woman? It's the name of Jesus, right? And so you, the reader, are in no doubt about this, right? But it's not impossible that you're a jailer. So you've got these people that are in prison and nobody is questioning. They have cast out the demon from this girl, like that is a matter of now established legal fact, right? Yeah, the question is that's left us in an economic pickle and we're not happy about it. But there's no accusation of they've not done this, right? Yes, they have definitely done this, and now they have I mean forgive me, but I'm trying to play the story out in the mind of the original attendee they have now caused an earthquake to happen which has released them from prison, so you can understand the jailer going. I'm in the presence of some very powerful people, yes, and these are people who I need the help of, and they are unequivocal. It is not us that you are going to trust in here. You are going to trust in the Lord, not just us regular old sirs.

John: 18:45

In that sense, Very good and I think that's an important thing to spot that's going on in this text.

John: 18:51

Yes, and of course there may be. There may be Paul. Paul may have picked up some of his previous experiences in terms of when when he and Barnabas have been mistaken for someone more than they are, but but here he's absolutely explicit in pointing the jailer to the Lord and to the word of the Lord, which, of course, it's the person and his word that's going to transform this man. It's absolutely a really beautiful thought. I love that. I love that and I love to David the again what feels a little bit like almost an echo of Lydia previously. I love what it says. He says that that are of the night.

John: 19:33

The jailer took them and washed their wounds. Then immediately he and all this house over baptized and then it and then you say it carries on the jailer brought them into his house and said a meal before them. He was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God. He and his old household, those lovely repeat ideas. But I love that. He took them, he washed them, he brought them, he fed them and it's a bit like like the Lydia echo. Her heart gets opened, she immediately opens her home. It's almost, if you count me a believer, then my home's yours.

John: 20:14

The jailer does exactly the same thing. He's, he's now, he doesn't, he doesn't sort of offer his home in the sense of the church, but yet he's saying he brings them into his house. So he's taken two prisoners in the inner cell, removed them from the inner cell and brought them into his own accommodation. Yes, so you're getting same trajectory Lydia opening her home, he brings them into his home Again. It speaks to the power of the gospel that when we truly encounter the Lord and truly encounter the word of the Lord, it, it, it almost brings immediate change to our behavior and to our patterns. And this jailer, if he was cruel, he wouldn't have been alone as a jailer. Being cruel, he would know how to roughly treat prisoners, he would know how to beat prisoners, he would know how to enslave prisoners. And yet all his actions are the antithesis of the jailer Took, washed, brought, fed, ministered to, served. Do you know? It's a complete reversal of his normal behavior with prisoners and it speaks to something of the transformation as it has done with Lydia.

David: 21:33

Yeah, I love it when, when we were looking at the text in the last episode, as we got to this part, I couldn't help but think. I think, because we were also talking about the Psalms, I couldn't help think about the 23rd Psalm, right, of course, and I was wondering and again, I'm just being imaginative but are is this one of the Psalms that Paul and Silas have have sung that night? And then so the Lord's my shepherd, he leads me to the side, still worries, he restores my soul. Even though I walk through the darkest valleys, I fear no evil, for you are with me. And then you get verse five.

David: 22:09

You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies, and and there was a part of me as I was looking at the text, as you were discussing it and reading it, and I agree with everything you've said I think it's, it's gorgeous. But there was also a part of me thinking, oh, we're actually seeing Psalm 23 play out here as well. Yeah, that the Lord is with them. And now they're sat at a Roman jailer's house, having themselves washed and cared for, and, my goodness, the freedom that the spirit brings is so remarkable, isn't it? It is.

John: 22:46

And actually I'm just looking, I'm just looking at the Greek text here having having brought them into the house, he led a table for them. Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, he led a table for them. I mean, that's beautiful, isn't it? Like it's very explicit, the line of the table, it's not just to give them food. It's the line of the table which which leans into your Sam yes 23 illusion. Yeah, he prepares a table before me and literally he led a table.

David: 23:15

Yeah.

John: 23:15

That is lovely. I hadn't seen. I hadn't quite seen that before. That's beautiful.

David: 23:19

Yeah, and, and this, this idea of the service is, is, is so gorgeous, and and which leads, of course, to this beautiful rejoicing that that he's become a believer. It's, my goodness, it's, it's, it's just. It's a stunning story, john, it is there's so many illusions that just tie and thread and navigate that the spirit is just doing what the spirit does, absolutely.

John: 23:46

And and and a little thought, david. And again, it could. It could be over overcookiness, but of course, if we go further into the New Testament we have, we have, of course, paul writing to the church at Philippi, and and you've got these, these sort of this lovely idea. And this is where my imagination runs well, so I have to be very, very careful. But this lovely idea that when Paul writes to the church at Philippi, whether it's meeting in Lydia's house at that point or not, could it be that the jailer and his family and his household are in the room hearing the letter read by Paul himself in the in the context of that? And of course you've got beautiful words in Philippi about serving one another in the community and and letting the mind of Christ be in you and how we follow his example in sharing that community. But but I love this little idea Rejoice, paul says, and the Lord always, and I will say it again, rejoice, let your gentleness be evident to all.

John: 25:03

The Lord is near. And I can't, having having read X 16 and reflected on it over many years, and then you read words like that in in a letter written to a church in Philippi, you're going oh, oh yeah, paul rejoiced in the prison, yes, when, when there was no band, no atmosphere, nothing going on. And then this, just lovely, let your gentleness be evident to all. And I I, having having just reflected on what we said about the jailer, how he looked after Paul, this, there's a love for me, there's a lovely little is. Is that a little connection there, the gentleness that the jailer demonstrated to Paul and Silas? And and maybe, maybe, maybe, and we wouldn't build our house, and maybe Paul's thinking about that as he writes the letter to the community that the jailer and his household will sit in.

David: 26:04

Oh well, I mean, I think that it's. It's fascinating that the there's rejoicing and joy is in the house and Philippians, as a letter has got so much rejoicing language. I was thinking, when you were saying that, about what happens when Paul goes to prison. I think we mentioned this. I think it was the last episode. We said that he's quite evidently free, right, even though his body is in chains, his reactions and behaviors that of a free person. So let's build on your imaginative journey, which I'm very comfortable with. I think it's quite likely the jailer and his family are in the church that received the letter to the Philippians. How would they hear, like I can imagine, the smirks? Philippians 1, verse 12,. I want you to know, beloved, that, what has happened to me, because Paul's talking about his imprisonment. What has happened?

David: 26:56

to me has actually helped to spread the gospel. So it has become known through the whole imperial guard and to everyone else that my imprisonment is for Christ, and most of the brothers and sisters have been made confident in the Lord by my imprisonment, daring to speak the word with great boldness and without fear. And I can see them going. That sounds familiar. And then one of my favorite moments in Philippians if you hold that in your mind, is what you just said is just the final three sentences Greet every saint in Christ Jesus. The friends who are with me greet you. All the saints greet you, especially those of the emperor's household. Yeah, come on. It's like I love the fact that Paul's in prison and he is leaking gospel and even some of the emperor's household have now come to faith. But it's just not lost on me in our conversation today that he's writing that to a church that probably contains a man who was on the emperor's payroll who will just be go. Yep, I know that story very, very well.

John: 28:04

That's just how the spirit works through Paul, yeah yeah, and I think it brings I mean, the letter to the church of Philippi thinks one of Paul's most intimate. I think it's a beautiful letter, but it brings what for me is already feels like quite an intimate letter to an even more dynamic level of intimacy. And you're sort of thinking about Lydia as he writes. As you read the letter to Philippi, you're thinking about the jailer and their households and what's represented. You're now I mean, we don't know what happened to this lay of God, where she went or whatever became of her.

John: 28:42

But of course, if the church at Philippi now is reflecting the social diversity of the story of X, chapter 16, then you've got a dynamic local community of followers of the way that are representing already, my goodness extremes a businesswoman, a potentially maybe wealthy businesswoman, or at least comfortably off a jailer with all that he represents and the world that he represents and the world that they bring and connect to, and you get this incredible sense of a community that should reflect the glory of God and the diversity of that community, that the Kingdom of God's never about one type of person and it's never.

John: 29:31

It never just goes after one type of person, it doesn't target a single demographic, but it's the gospel. If it's let loose in a prayer gathering, it can cause a businesswoman to believe. If it's let loose in the marketplace, it can set a slave girl free. And if it's let loose in the darkness of the prison, it can transform a godless prison order and bring him to the light and bring him to life. And I can't help but think, when I read the letter to the church at Philippi, that the diversity of that group sit there and smile and wonder at the grace and goodness of God.

David: 30:12

My goodness. And just one last thing to wrap up, that allusion to Philippians, the letter as well, is. We've talked about economy through all of these episodes. There's one woman has money, one woman is creating money. One woman is there. One man is there to guard the money. It's not.

David: 30:35

It's worth looking, listeners, just the last chapter of Philippians and noticing that Paul's point to the church in Philippi is no church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you alone. So I just was thinking about our conversations over these few verses in Philippi in about the Philippi church. It's interesting that Luke picks up on the economic narrative that's going on in this story. But there clearly is a revolution happening in their hearts there because they become the church, the pioneer generosity towards Paul. So we actually see that the economy is changed in these people's hearts. Yeah, very good. So that's it for this episode. We know that there's always more to explore and we encourage you to dive into the text and do that. If you liked this episode, we'd really appreciate it if you rated, reviewed or shared it. We also appreciate all of our listeners who financially support the show, sharing the weight of producing this podcast. If you'd like to support the show. Visit to texts dot com. But that is all for now. So until next time, from John and I, goodbye.