The God Who Bears Witness | Disruptive Presence 74

[00:00:00] David: So, John, we are in Acts 15, wonderful conversation in our last episode about just the significance or the stakes of what's, what's at play in Acts 15 really a question about how we see salvation, how we see the work of Christ and, and maybe some other, some. The roots of some other ideas, which are deeply problematic from the church around what Christians look like, that really starts to come into more relief as you dig down deeper and deeper into chapter 15, doesn't it? 

[00:00:38] Yes. 
 

[00:00:42] John: personally, I don't know if it came across to our listeners are so touched by last podcast. I personally, I thought it was, it was great to just again, try and step into the sandals of Paul and the fact that hold on, this is, this is not simply a debate for him. This is, this is life. 

[00:01:01] This is everything. And I was struck so powerfully by by you quoting Galatians 2 21. I mean, I know that verse, but the way you quoted it in the context of our conversation, Christ died for nothing. I mean, for Paul, he's going, Okay, if if it's if it's salvation to the law, there's no point to this. 

[00:01:22] There's no point to Jesus that I was so forcefully, it came so powerfully to me in that podcast again, and I know I know that and yet it was like, Oh, it just, it just boomed in the depths of my soul and you realize again, Paul is totally invested. And it's funny, I was reflecting and my own. 

[00:01:42] little thought, in Galatians 2, you can hear then Paul's frustration with Peter and you can hear his exasperation with Barnabas, even Barnabas, even Barnabas was sort of led astray by them. And Paul is pulling his hair out. He's absolutely going apoplectic on this issue because, because actually for him, it's everything. 

[00:02:03] And that really struck me in our last podcast. And I would really urge our listeners, if you haven't listened to that one. Go back to the previous podcast, have a listen and lean into that. I thought your summary of Paul's teaching on the death of Christ was magnificent. I thought it was an outstanding summary in about four minutes, which was a stunning piece of theology. 

[00:02:26] So yeah, I'm Pumped. I can't wait to get to this one. I'm really, really excited. As you can probably tell, I've taken far too long in saying how excited I am about the podcast. So there we are. There we are. 

[00:02:37] David: It's interesting, actually, you make the point, even, policy in Galatians, Peter, even Barnabas. I think that actually is helpful for us to hear that and be reminded of that in the conversations about Acts 15. That there's, that our hearts are deceitful. That would be almost, perhaps to quote, I think it's Augustine, isn't it? 

[00:03:01] Where, where. Let's remember that sometime the gospel is going to feel wrong. And and so, we were having a conversation in my, in my leadership team at church. Just recently, one of the guys said something, which I loved, he just said that the Holy Spirit can use your conscience, but your conscience is not the Holy Spirit. 

[00:03:26] Right. And that what you see that even like what Paul's saying. The message of the gospel, the message around you do not need to be circumcised to be saved. To most of the early followers of Jesus who came with Jesus and from a Jewish background, that just sounded and felt. wrong, right? And yet we would sit here now and go, well, it's so obviously right. 

[00:03:51] But when you're deeply embedded into a way of thinking and cultural ways of thinking, the gospel will sometimes feel wrong to you. So, so I would always counsel, let's be slow. And I know that we're not doing that here, but, but let's be slow to criticize the Barnabas and the Peters because it's more than likely that there are areas of life to us, which looks so Obviously wrong. 

[00:04:13] The gospel, it's within our lifetime, John. I mean, think about how crazy this is, but it's still within our lifetime. There's people trying to differentiate people's salvation on the basis of their skin color. 

[00:04:26] John: Yeah. 
 

[00:04:27] David: So, so we're a couple of thousand years later, still saying the same things that, that it feels, wrong. 

[00:04:33] And and so there's, there's a beautiful warning from Paul constantly to us. I think when he says, even Barnabas, I think I've tried to read that text in Galatians pastly to remember. Even me, like, even, even, even I, with all of my thinking that I understand the gospel, there will be spots where I will try and do exactly what happens in Acts 15. 

[00:04:55] Wait a minute. It may be good to talk about Jesus, but unless you do X and Y, you cannot really be saved. And, and so there's this beautiful warning from history to us here. That, that even if the son of encouragement can occasionally stumble over this, let us keep watch and keep alert so that, that we also don't fall over these things. 

[00:05:19] John: Absolutely. If, if Barney, one of my all time heroes can have a wobble, what hope do I have, David? Do you know what I mean? It's like, goodness me. So it's, it's lurking in all of us. As I've, as I've often said that, there is a forgive the language, but there is a pharisee lurking in us all. And, and, it's, it. 

[00:05:39] It's amazing that we've been talking about the disruptive presence of the spirit and there is a strange paradoxical experience with both the spirit and Jesus that that Both the spirit and the Lord lead us to life and wholeness But at the same time we can feel deeply deeply uncomfortable and out of our comfort zone to the extent that It really can impact as I I was reading something this morning in my Every day devotions from the book of Proverbs, and I had to literally ask myself, hold on a minute. 

[00:06:13] Am I doing that? Is that, is that, do I believe that? And I felt the moments before that, I'm worshiping the Lord. I'm going through my confessions. I'm quoting the Shema. I'm, I'm enjoying the presence of the Lord. And then boom, I get whacked right between the eyes and I go, Oh. Hold on a minute. 

[00:06:31] And I can't just rush past this. So I'm constantly contending with the paradoxical experience of being a follower of Jesus, that you could be equally blessed and equally uncomfortable all at the same time. And we sort of need to get used to that, just being constantly uncomfortable around, around Jesus. 

[00:06:51] I, I mean, is that over, I, I just think, oh my goodness, I, I 

[00:06:56] David: Well, I was thinking as you said that just a few moments ago, we think about the pharisees and you and I have said this before on this podcast, the pharisees are the good guys, the pharisees, sometimes the way we, we casually read scripture, we, we see the pharisees as the bad guys because they're always arguing with Jesus and then now in, and now here in Acts, And They're arguing, they're standing up and saying, wait, no, we must do this. 

[00:07:23] We must do that to your point when we started what the Pharisees say. It seems from reading Galatians, one almost everybody over with the exception of Paul, even Barnabas is like, maybe they've got a point. We tend to see the Pharisees as the, as the, the bad guys. These were the lovers of scripture. 

[00:07:41] These were the lovers of God. And, and these. Are the people who were so committed to serving God? Well, within their framework, one of the dangers, I think, when we see the Pharisees is the bad guys is we then see ourselves as the good guys and we also then switch off from the possibility that we could ever make the mistakes that we think the Pharisees have made. 

[00:08:05] Rather than saying at some level, of course, All of us are governed by that. It's a very human thing to do, that when you, when you love something, you want to protect it. But the question is how you go about protecting it can Can sometimes actually damage the very thing and and I think that's, that's the, the warning that goes on, like, and you and I've talked to me, we hopefully people hear us talk about the Pharisees love of scripture in all of its positivity, but it is a navigation for people to that read scripture in the New Testament to, to Just be really cautious of that, that we are the ones who, who most often represent actually that, that, that type of approach that is there. 

[00:08:55] And I think it's, and I think we'll see this in this text. So maybe we just jump into this text now and we'll see it come out naturally in the conversation about this fine line of wanting to pursue alignment with God. And thinking that the best way to do that is to control. 

[00:09:13] John: Hmm.  
 

[00:09:15] David: So we're going to read from verse 5 through to about verse 12 of Acts chapter 15, aren't we? 

[00:09:19] John: Yes, I am excited to do this. So here we go. Verse 5. Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, the Gentiles. must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses. The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them. 

[00:09:41] Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for He purified their hearts by faith. 

[00:10:08] Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors were able to bear? No, we believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved Just as they are. The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul Telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 

[00:10:38] Come on 

[00:10:39] David: It's so good. It's so good. I mean, it's, let, let's say it, let's say it now because both of us spotted it in this, this part of the text. There's this, this issue of, of silence is really fascinating, isn't it? 

[00:10:52] John: It, it is, it stands out, doesn't it? So, verse 12, the whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul. And it does give the impression, though Luke is kind in how he summarizes this council, that as Peter is speaking, it's, it's a bit rowdy, that there's, there's maybe noise going on arguments, et cetera. 

[00:11:16] I, I occasionally watch prime minister's question time here in the United Kingdom. And my goodness it's, it's a, it's an eye opening experience. And our prime minister stands at the dispatch box and gets questioned. And it's a bit of a, it feels like a bit of a show really, but the noise in the chamber as people are trying to speak. 

[00:11:37] Because people are shouting and, and waving papers and agreeing or disagreeing and I, I sort of get the sense that knowing the robustness of the culture in which these men are living and also the severity of the issue at hand, I think this would have been a fairly robust chamber wherever this is and I think Dr. 

[00:11:59] Luke, I think my whole reading of chapter 15, David, is that Dr. Luke's been really, really careful about which voices are heard in this debate because he's maybe conscious of a gentile world that's going to read this stuff and therefore he's very, very careful of how he's representing this debate in the church. 

[00:12:19] So, so that little silent moment does suggest it was probably more robust than, than the very kind commentary that Dr. Luke has given us. Fair comment you think? 

[00:12:31] David: Yes. No, I think so. I think so. There's definitely there's definitely something going on, isn't it? But it's. it's it's fascinating how, I mean, even the way that Luke tells this story and we'll see this, we don't actually get the full narrative of, of, of these early, of these early speakers. And I think it's because we know the full narrative. 

[00:12:56] We know what Peter's going to say. So we get a little summary. We know what Paul and Barnabas are going to say. So we don't really get. anything at all about that. But then he's going to hold it in verse 13 because James is going to speak. We're going to get a new voice. And I wonder if that's Luke's strategy of ensuring that we realize there was togetherness here on, on this from, from these apostles and leaders. 

[00:13:18] But, but I, I, what I like about, about this is it, and this is what I was about to allude to earlier before we. Jumped into the text that the stakes of this conversation, because I do, and I hope our listeners hear this from me constantly, that the, the, the stakes of this conversation are still present to us today. 

[00:13:40] And at one level, this looks like a conversation around about theological alignment, right? But actually it's a conversation about control and it's actually a conversation that the. That I think the gospel always butts up against that, that if you really lean into what the gospel says, it sounds ludicrous. 

[00:14:07] If you are, if you're approaching it from the perspective that this is a religion that will bring people into forms of order and controllability, the gospel doesn't do that. It relies on the Holy Spirit to do that. The gospel relies on Jesus in us being so true that. He will adjust and align and change our hearts. 

[00:14:32] And we as humans, I don't think we trust Jesus in that. So we always are susceptible to the notion of, well, yes, I know that Jesus is going to change your heart, but here are some rules for you to follow anyway, because this will really help you. And so, I would say to anybody listening, you have encountered or perhaps generated situations exactly like the ones that they're dealing with in Acts, just using different scenarios to generate it. 

[00:14:59] So just because the threat of circumcision is no longer present to most people becoming Christians, the threat of this text is still very, very evident. For some of us, it was. I mean, I think trying to think about the things, John, even in our lifetimes, can Christians smoke? 

[00:15:17] Can Christians drink dress code for Christians, places that Christians can go places that Christians cannot go? How much do you pray? How many services do you come to all of these things? I mean, and I'm just Choosing light hearted ones at some level, although they've caused lots of pain for many people. 

[00:15:35] But things that we insert and say, no, no, no, if you want to be a proper Christian, you will not do this or you will do that. I mean, I think that's a little bit of our recent legacy, isn't it? Yes. 

[00:15:49] John: although in Acts 15, we've got a very, very specific focus of the conversation the sort of human issues at the heart of the gospel remain very, very similar. So, we can change the jacket on this and you've got. Very, very similar conversations happening and it is true, David. I think there's a tremendous challenge to us all and I'm speaking as a capital C control freak. 

[00:16:17] I, I love knowing what I'm doing, six months in advance and plan everything to the nth degree. So any, any of my friends listening to this will, will you? Yeah, that's true. That's him. So I, I love, I love all of that. And of course, the danger is that I want to number one, impose that onto the Lord, do it my way. 

[00:16:38] This is the way I think you should do it. And then even more perhaps dangerously impose it onto people around me. And we've all been guilty of that. I have done that. Absolutely. I've probably done it. I would say in truth, I've done it with the best motives in the world. And I would have done it under the conversation of discipleship and helping people to move forward. 

[00:17:02] And I think there's a, there's a an appropriate conversation there. But, but so often it's been because, if we're honest we haven't fully trusted the work of grace. We've sort of said, well, let me just give this a nudge. Let me just make sure that we built and braces this idea and make sure, you're staying within the lines sort of thing. 

[00:17:25] And the danger is, and this is, this has been one of my challenges, is that we've settled for behavioral modification instead of, instead of spiritual transformation. If, the issue here is encounter with Jesus. If someone has encountered Jesus, then that's the material, truly, that's going to allow for the behavior to change. 

[00:17:49] If they haven't encountered Jesus, then all we're doing is imposing very good sort of religious behavioral modification, but it's behavioral modification, nonetheless. And, and, and I think there's a, there is a conversation here about control. What is this going to look like? And it's, it's, when we eventually get to James, I think there's a struggle here. 

[00:18:14] Okay, we accept the idea that Jesus is Lord and that Jesus is the one doing the work, but we still need you to think about the following ideas. And, and, and how do we understand those ideas? Do we understand them in the light of grace or in the light of control? And I think it's it's moving the conversation from a want to to a have to it's moving it from here's something I think I have to do rather than this. 

[00:18:38] Here's something I want to do and I and I think this is Paul's Conversation constantly he never fully read. I never get the sense in reading Paul that he rejects the law That the goodness of the law he's he's saying I'm not keeping the law in a completely different way for a completely different reason Rather than seeing, the law as, as simply a means to something, he's seeing it as an expression of something. 

[00:19:06] And, and I think, I think that's, it's that work of grace that, that really is at the heart of this, this debate and this conversation. So I think it is, it is crucial. I think it's huge. And I think it's ongoing for us as we think about that. 

[00:19:19] David: I mean, I love the way you said it about, they're probably doing it with the best of intentions. I mean, I think generally speaking, that's always the case, isn't it? That we, the Gentiles, we want them to be saved. So, so, and our understanding is the way for them to be saved is to have them. 

[00:19:34] be circumcised. I think, I love how John Barkley, whose work on, on grace is very, very good. It's kind of work that he's done really over the last 10 years. His, his book, Paul and the power of grace would be one of these books. If you wanted a little bit of a. aN accessible, but deep dive into some of, the kind of best and most recent New Testament scholars on this. 

[00:20:05] I would really commend Barclay's book, Paul and the power of grace. But he uses this metaphor, which I love, which is that the cross has bankrupted the law, right? So, so, so it's not that. It ceases to be, it's just that it no longer can do what it used to do, and and, and so it's like, it's like you having that drawer in your house where you've got you've got some francs from a trip that you took to France in the early nineties, right? 

[00:20:37] And, and and, because of the euro, those francs are. Technically now worthless. That doesn't mean they were worthless when you got them, right? It just means that now they don't do any longer what they used to do. And so Paul's able to draw this separation in his thing. And Peter's able to do it here. 

[00:20:58] I'd love to jump into the Peter text in just a moment and explore it. But there's, there's this sense that We're having to adapt now to the facts like, like Europe did when they woke up one morning and all of a sudden the euro is the new currency. We now have to adapt to something else. And you can go into the shop and you can slam your francs down on the Table and demand that they take them. 

[00:21:21] But the shop owner is just going to go to, sorry, that doesn't work here anymore. And you're like, but it worked here last week. And it's like, no, something's different now. And, and we have to adapt to it. And I think the message of the, of these apostles here, I mean, I mean, look at what, and it's to be fair. 

[00:21:40] It's shot through with Old Testament illusions, if we will listen to them. Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you Gentiles, that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel. This is an allusion to Cornelius for sure. Like I, I love this God who knows the heart. 

[00:21:58] I mean, is it, that's a, I mean, now we're in, now we're in Samuel, aren't we? And we're now in I mean, I just, I'm thinking about that scene, when, when, when David is, is approaching and, and, and the prophet Samuel is like, no, I'm not so sure about this. So, so this is a little old Testament illusion. 

[00:22:14] I think God who knows the heart, the implication being you don't, 

[00:22:19] John: mm, 
 

[00:22:20] David: it's like, God who knows the heart showed that he accepted them by giving them the Holy spirit to them just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them for he purified their hearts. By faith. And then there's that little line, we believe it's through grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that we are saved just as they are. 

[00:22:40] I mean, the anti discrimination here is so powerful from Peter, isn't it? Like he has learned the Cornelius lesson. 

[00:22:47] John: Oh, he has. He totally has. And if you, if you, I mean, you cannot hear Peter's speech and not think Cornelius. So that just as we have is, is, he says in here in his speech just as he did to us is, is a, almost an echo, clear echo of 1047, that they've received the Holy Spirit just as we have. And again, he alludes to that again in verse 11 no, we believe it is through grace, the Lord Jesus of our Lord Jesus that we are saved just as they are. It is an unmissable. Connector. Unmissable echo between the two stories. So clearly the Cornelius story has had a profound impact on Peter. And, and Peter is, is completely convinced. 

[00:23:39] Now there is no distinction, no separation. Both of us, the Jew and Gentile, have had their hearts purified by faith. Gorgeous expression there which I think is just simply magnificent. And of course, our David, he drops in the middle of this in verse 10, he really drops a, a really, so you've got this gorgeous language all around verse 8, verse 9, verse 11. 

[00:24:08] Dynamically inclusive, and he drops this hard word right in the middle of it. Verse 10, Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors were able to bear you? 

[00:24:23] David: Hmm. 
 

[00:24:24] John: I mean, he's not missing and hitting the wall there, right? And again, that, that allusion to the yoke an allusion even to the law in general to the teaching of Torah, this idea of taking the yoke of truth, the, even the yoke of, of a rabbi, those ideas are all there. 

[00:24:41] And, and I, I can't help but also hear Jesus speaking about Take my yoke upon you and learn from me and, and the, the contrast of that, that his yoke, the yoke of Jesus is contrasted. Can I say this carefully? I don't want to overstretch this to the yoke of slavery that Paul refers to even in Galatians. 

[00:25:04] So you've got this, you've got this gorgeous language, it's connecting Jesus and even. language that Paul will use in a yoke that can set us free or a yoke that can make us slaves. 

[00:25:18] David: Hmm, 
 

[00:25:19] John: And, and one is yoked to a person and the other is, is yoked to a, to a thing. In a sense, without that person, with that person, the yoke becomes a completely different experience. 

[00:25:32] Without that person, the yoke is to quote Peter on, we're unable to bear it. We're unable to bear it. It's a very powerful argument, isn't it? That Peter's making there. 

[00:25:44] David: Oh, huge. Hugely so. Hugely so. And and I'd highly, like, highly critical as well. That, and, and I'm, I, I, I sound like a dripping tap or a stuck record on this, but, but how often do we do this As Christians, we ask. We exclude people for things that we cannot, we cannot maintain ourselves. And the, the deceitfulness of our own hearts is quite, is quite stunning when it, when it comes to that. 

[00:26:15] And then the fact that, that that's the thing that, that, that the Lord does see. And I always, I was just looking at this, I was trying to, and again, these are sort of ideas that I should. Study and then come back and look at, but it struck me that, that in In Peter's conversation about Cornelius, the language is very much the language of face, right? 

[00:26:39] And I know we talked about it at the time, and that's stuff that I've worked on in my academic work in the past. This notion of God doesn't judge based on face. Here we have this language of heart appears, and I don't think we've encountered that in the Acts discrimination question yet. But it struck me that the question of heart Is the language that is used in 1 Samuel, right? 

[00:27:05] So, so I am trying to decide how intentional Peter is doing to allude to a famous piece of Old Testament text, right? Do not consider his Appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. 

[00:27:28] Right. And then, and then you get Peter here in Acts 15 saying, I mean, the, the, the Greeks actually quite as a beautiful little, beautiful little word that Peter uses where, where he says I've just, I've lost the exact word there, John. So that's always, always good when you're, when you're, your screen jumps, but, but God is God is a, a heart knower. 

[00:27:53] That's it's literally the, literally, literally the whole God is a heart knower. Oh, what a beautiful, what a beautiful image of God, God, the heart knower. But can a, can a Jewish audience in the first century hear about God, the heart knower? And not think about the story of Samuel and David and we're, and inscribed, I mean, I'm not a Jewish person in the first century, but first Samuel 16 was taught to us all the time in Sunday 

[00:28:20] John: Of course. 

[00:28:21] David: God, man looks at the outward appearance. God looks at the heart. We, we memorized it in the King James and you were probably not dissimilar. It 

[00:28:27] John: Oh, completely. Absolutely. It's, it's a, it's a magnificent text. And it, it's not lost on me either. If, if you're leaning into that as a, as a David Samuel illusion that of course later on, and we'll pick this up, but, but of course, James leans into David and, and through, the prophet Amos quotes this idea of something of David's world, David's tent, his fallen tent being rebuilt. 

[00:28:56] So, you see, again, that could be totally coincidental, but if there's an allusion within Peter to the heart and to David, then, then actually James certainly does make that connection or, or drive that point home, but, but I do, I do love that heart knower idea. He knows the heart and, and of course that's, that's the most, that's the most difficult challenge for us is because we are constantly tempted to make judgments about things we don't really, really know. 

[00:29:31] Like, we don't really know what's in a person's heart unless somehow the Lord himself helps us. We do not know. We have to trust the evidence of what looks like fruit that comes from that heart. Fruit that looks like a heart that's changed. And that's the only clue Jesus gives us. Look at a tree. 

[00:29:50] If it's got good fruit coming from it, that's a clue. If it's got bad fruit coming from it, it's a clue. But knowing the heart, my goodness, without the Lord's help, that's above our pay grade, and yet so often in maybe our worst moments, we cross that line to presume that we do know the heart, and that's when then it becomes a very different type of conversation, and one we must be careful with. 

[00:30:17] David: And, and I want to, I want to spend a little longer in verse eight, John, because it's so gorgeous. Once you, once you draw your attention to the heart knowing God, I mean, my goodness is such a cool, cool concept, but, but just, just look at the Greek of this text because it's stark, right? The heart knowing God witnessed to them, giving them the Holy Spirit. 

[00:30:41] Just as to us, I mean, so, so like, think about what Peter's saying that we are called to be witnesses, like, and the word is witnesses. It's, it's martyr. It's that, it's that whole martyr word group that's being used here. Here we have God witnessing. It's like, like, that's a fascinating concept, isn't it? 

[00:31:01] So often it's humans who are witnessing for God, but the, but God is witnessing to them that he is a heart knower. by giving them the Holy Spirit. How do we know God is a heart nor says Peter? Well, he, he gave them the Holy Spirit. And so, so, I mean, I love this conscience concept of God as a witness. I mean, Ooh, that gives me a little you get those little chills when you read a bit of text. 

[00:31:24] John: It's fantastic. And of course, if we take that verse back to Cornelius, it loads that up even more. Right. So it then it becomes Wow. Okay. And I so this is what I love about two texts. And I try to tell people who say they love our podcast. And I try to say to them, look, When you hear me genuinely surprised, like that's real. 

[00:31:47] So I am now, I'm 57 years of age, I've studied the Bible all my adult life and I've never seen the connection between X 15 8 and Cornelius. So that's led up to me in a new way, that the heart knowing God. bore witness to them. I, I'd never seen that before, like that. So, so I'd made the connection just as we had. 

[00:32:12] That was the easy, the easy. I had never seen the heart knowing God bore witness. And I'm thinking, Oh my goodness, I cannot now read the Cornelius story the same way having. Seen that in Acts 15. 8. That is a stunning piece of insight. And again, the fact that Peter's saying it, Peter's saying, actually I was there, and the Holy Spirit came on them, but what this actually proves is that God knew the heart of Cornelius, God knew the heart of his household, God knew the heart of a Roman, and God responded to the heart of a Roman and bore witness that this Roman was saved by faith. 

[00:32:52] in Christ Jesus. My goodness, that's, I love that. Thank you. I, I'm looking at the Greek text and I am literally like, I was gonna say wedding myself with excitement, but that would be too much information. But I'm certainly, I'm certainly, wow. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Shows 

[00:33:15] David: then I find myself just resonating just really quickly there. It's not, the word witnessed isn't there, but as you were saying that all of a sudden I found myself thinking of Romans three where in verse 26 we have. We have God demonstrating his righteousness to us by, through Jesus. So now, I'm now sort of down this little rabbit hole in my thinking about the God who witnesses to us. 

[00:33:46] Like, what the heck is God doing feeling that he needs to demonstrate anything to us? And and, and, and what is God doing thinking he needs to witness to Cornelius? But he does. I mean, what a gorgeous picture 

[00:34:00] John: And I suppose for me, the beautiful connector is, so back to the knowing the heart, David, so, so, this is what excited me. Peter is essentially saying, I didn't really know what was in Cornelius's heart. 

[00:34:12] David: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:34:15] John: But God knew, and how did I know God knew? He gave him the Holy Spirit just as he gave to us. And now I know that God knows the heart of Cornelius, and therefore if God's accepted him, I'm accepting him. 

[00:34:27] And I'm going, Oh, that is too cool. That is absolutely outstanding. And, and that is a beautiful, beautiful thought that God bears witness to us. And he's not just bearing witness to the receiver of the Holy Spirit, Cordelius, but he's bearing witness to those who perhaps cynically or, or cautiously or nervously may think, well, hold on a Roman, a Roman can't. 

[00:34:55] A Roman can't be a follower of Jesus. A Roman can't be like me. And yet now Peter, by seeing the Holy Spirit, knows that the God who knows the heart has revealed this amazing truth. Come on, ladies and gentlemen, come on, listen to this podcast again. I will. That was fantastic. Thank you, David. Bless you.