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[00:00:00] John: Well, David, we are back. And we're still in X Chapter 14. We, we sort of launched N to 14 last time, our last podcast, and had a little bit of a reflection on Paul Barnabas and the team's experience in Iconium. And I think one of the things that struck me there was You get, you get the tension of even though there was persecution arising, it says they, they spoke boldly for the Lord who confirmed the message and enabled that they continued on. 

[00:00:35] So even though there was the threat of persecution coming, they kept going for it. within Iconium until they reached a point where they couldn't keep going. And and I love, I love the pragmatism of that. I love the idea that, okay, look, just because there's a bit of hassle, does it mean we have to run? 

[00:00:53] So they stick with it. But then when the hassle starts to develop from verbal controversy to the plot to ill treat them and stone them, then they decide, okay, it's time to get out and move on. So, so, so I love that. And One of our little reflections was verse seven, where they continued to preach the good news. 

[00:01:13] They continued gospelling, which is amazing. So, so I love that. So verse six, we, in our, in our podcast last time, but they found out about the plot, fled to the Laconian cities of Lystra and Derby. and to the surrounding country where they continued to preach the good news. And we're going to pick up sort of where they continued to preach the good news from Versiate on in Lystra and then on to a place called Derby. 

[00:01:39] So, so are you happy to jump in and do the reading on that and and lead us through that? That would be brilliant. 

[00:01:45] David: it. And so here they are in Lystra because they have fled, I mean, the lack of, the lack of it probably feeling anything like the plan to them right now is, is quite remarkable, isn't it? And 

[00:01:59] John: so true. 

[00:02:00] David: so Acts chapter 14, verse eight, and it it says this in Lystra. There sat a man who was lame. 

[00:02:09] He'd been that way from birth and had never walked. He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed, and called out, Stand up on your feet. At that, the man jumped up and began to walk. When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lacanonian language, The gods have come down to us in human form. 

[00:02:37] Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates, because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them. When the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting, Friends, why are you doing this? 

[00:03:01] We too are only human like you. We are bringing you... Good news telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them. In the past, he let all nations go their own way, yet he has not left himself without testimony. He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their season. 

[00:03:23] He provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy. Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them. Then, some Jews came from Antioch and Iconium and won the crowd over. They stoned Paul and dragged him outside the city thinking he was dead. But after the disciples had gathered around him, he got up and went back into the city. 

[00:03:48] And the next day he and Barnabas left for Derby, 

[00:03:56] John: Just gotta, you gotta love the fickleness of a crowd, right? You gotta, you just gotta love. 

[00:04:00] David: a hundred percent, 

[00:04:02] John: One minute, one minute they're making them gods, and the next minute that's that's beat the life out of them, quite literally. Wow, 

[00:04:09] David: What a lesson though. What a lesson 

[00:04:11] John: Oh yeah, 

[00:04:11] David: for all of us. And we see it, we see it nowadays, don't we, where, somebody has a huge following. They post something on social media that somebody doesn't like. They have no following. Somebody has like, it's happening time and time again, that if your identity is being proclaimed by the crowd, you are on some very, very thin ice. 

[00:04:34] John: for sure. Absolutely, for sure. And again, doesn't it show you that, here's, here's a crowd in Lystra, dynamically impacted by a miracle, and, and we'll probably circle back to the miracle in a moment, but dynamically impacted by a miracle, want to honor Paul and Barnabas in their own unique way to do this, and yet, in the first moment of controversy, They, they turn on Paul and Barnabas and doesn't it show you again, I mean, there's a, there's a hidden in plain sight idea here for me that actually, if truth doesn't take a hold of people and it's just. 

[00:05:14] In this case, a miracle. Actually, miracles alone aren't enough to transform your thinking or your living to a particular direction. You can actually be swayed, even though you've seen a miracle. And again, it brings us back to this idea and you can see. You can see Paul and Barnabas trying to do it. 

[00:05:33] They're trying to get them back to a truth conversation, even in the midst of them celebrating the miracle, because they know that actually, even miracles, even wonderful miracles don't necessarily mean that those who've seen them and experienced them are going to believe or are going to be transformed. 

[00:05:50] So, so it's a, it's amazing to me that before the truth could get the chance to take grip, that people have Change their behavior profoundly towards Paul and Barnabas and try to, we'll certainly try to kill Paul in the context of that. It's just, I think it's a fascinating little sort of nuance in the text, or it's not necessarily explicit, but I think it's there within that. 

[00:06:12] David: Well, the whole, I mean, I was reading the text as well and looking at Paul's, Paul's sermon around the confusion and I don't know, I don't know if you, I mean, there's so many things that are fascinating to me in this and we. Probably should work through them a little bit, but the Paul's the framing of Paul's sermon to me You know, I'm a huge fan of Paul. 

[00:06:39] So But one of the things we pick up from Paul in Acts you see in Athens as well is that Paul He appears to know his stuff, not just about Torah, he's able to walk into Athens. We'll get there. It's at chapter 17. So that would probably be some point around about December next year. But no, I'm only joking. 

[00:07:00] In Acts chapter 17, he, Paul pronounces this famous piece of Greek poetry, famous because of Paul in him. We live and move and have our being, right? But this is not a. Piece of Jewish poetry. It's a piece of Greek poetry about Zeus. We see Paul is culturally and socially aware in Colossians. 

[00:07:22] He's able to structure language, which just subtly. Alludes to the Emperor Caesar, but he's talking about Jesus. It's like he's, he's very socially aware. Paul is. He knows the context he's working in. And it struck me when I was reading this sermon. I don't know if it did you as well. The things that he. That he identifies to me are really, really interesting. 

[00:07:47] So you know, he talks about he has not left himself without a witness. He is giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons and filling you with food and your hearts with joy. Right. And I may be stretching it here, John, but I'm going to throw it out here anyway. Zeus is the god of the clouds, right? 

[00:08:07] So cool. Thank you. So, and, and Hermes is the, is a bit of a trickster God. He's a speaker, but he's also, and I just found myself wondering is, is Paul literally choosing his descriptions of. The living God and attributing to the living God, the things that the, that his hearers would naturally attribute to Zeus and Hermes, right? 

[00:08:31] So that has he structured his impromptu sermon with the exact problem in mind here? You think we're Zeus and Hermes, and we're here to tell you that those things you think Zeus and Hermes do, not explicitly, but just implicitly those things that are living God and we are only. Only gospelers. I, you see, you hear what I'm scratching at there? 

[00:08:54] John: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's reflected even in, in the response. Verse 18, even with these words, they have difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them. So it's clearly Paul Barnabas trying to deflect away from what, what they're trying to make of them in order to point them to something bigger, something beyond that, something, something glorious. 

[00:09:16] And, and it struck me as well, David, I don't know your reflection of it, sort of, the absence explicitly of a Jesus reference within that, and again, maybe Paul is trying to win the crowd over with generic language or language that would be understood by them or accessible to them with the view that maybe if the crowd calms down, then we'll get into the Jesus conversation. 

[00:09:42] But it is interesting that he does, because I think he does the same in Athens. I'm not sure there's a explicit reference to Jesus in Athens, and it feels a bit like. So I could be wrong here reading this. It almost feels like Paul's trying to use this to soften, to calm the crowd, in order to then introduce perhaps the Jesus message in the context of that. 

[00:10:07] Because what's striking, even in the healing of the man, there's no reference to Jesus, it's Paul speaking to the man. So it's, what's really striking for me is the absence of a direct Jesus. Reference here. Now that's not, we shouldn't worry about that because actually you don't have that even in Iconium before. 

[00:10:30] There's no explicit Jesus reference to the text, although it's implied. It's all there. But I, but I, I, I, I sort of absolutely need. Connect with your thought on that. Is Paul, but I suppose my application is my thought process, is Paul trying to use language to calm them down, language they will understand, in order to then introduce a Jesus conversation which is much more direct and explicit. Does that make sense as a reflection? 

[00:10:59] David: Yeah. No, no, 

[00:11:00] John: why. The reaction? 

[00:11:03] David: Yes. No, absolutely. I think I think all those things are what are what's happening exactly here I often think about Stanley Harawas's statement that all theological discussion should start with the question What God are we talking about? aNd so, I mean, it's interesting, the text has, Paul looks at the man and sees that he has faith to be saved, right? 

[00:11:28] Which we often translate. So, so I think in Luke's language, I would feel very confident that, That Paul has been proclaiming the gospel in this situation. And, because Luke's happy to say it's faith to be safe. We've seen 

[00:11:43] this throughout. But it is interesting that for every reason, the crowd are not paying proper attention. 

[00:11:53] They, because they decide regardless of what Paul said, they now decide. The gods have come down to us in human form. I mean, it's an important lesson to anyone who engages in conversation about the gospel. And that's why I like that, that Harvest statement of like, well, what God are we talking about? 

[00:12:12] Because if we don't really grasp what God we're talking about, we will often take Jesus and try and fit him into our idea. of Jesus. I think we see this, we've seen this throughout history, but most recently, I think we see it in kind of colonial Britain and in, in, in the American empire that we You know, we say very British things and just assume you see this. 

[00:12:45] If you read stuff from the sort of 1800s, early 1900s, Britain, we say very British things and just squeeze Jesus into it. Because of course, that's what Jesus wants as well. And allows us to defend our behavior. Jesus wants you to be, happy and successful is very much a noise you hear out of the kind of North American context at the moment. 

[00:13:04] And it's actually our own cultural religion that we're trying to fit Jesus within. And that's exactly what seems to be happening here, that Paul has, Paul has proclaimed the gospel, can I say successfully enough? We don't have the sermon, but he's proclaimed it successfully enough that a man who can't walk is sitting there thinking this. 

[00:13:25] Is the thing and Luke identifies it as faith to be saved, but the people haven't been paying enough attention or, just to be fully generous. Paul hasn't, it's not his better sermon days. Maybe that's why Luke hasn't written this one down. I've been sarcastic, but, but for whatever reason, the crowd are saying, we hear what you're saying, but we are going to fit it into. 

[00:13:48] Our cultural religious context, and now we're going to proclaim you gods and, and, and listen, without trying to get into a minefield of controversy, I think about the modern celebrity Christian and and we see even the celebrity pastor sort of thing that's happened over the last few years. 

[00:14:10] And, and, and it's, I think it's exactly what's happening here. Right. That, that somebody comes out with the, this idea of proclaiming the gospel. And what ends up is we say, okay, we like what you're saying, but you've got to do it like this. Right. And, and the difference is that what Paul and Barnabas do is they tear their clothes and say, no, no, no, no, you, this is not what we are. 

[00:14:32] But what's happened, I think in modern times is we've accepted, oh, well, maybe this is a good way to do it. And we accept the, the, the. The treatment like celebrities and the problem is if Paul and Barnabas say, you know what, maybe if we just pretend we're Hermes and Zeus, we can do good gospel work, but we, we, I mean, when you say it like that, it's so obviously the wrong way, but in our time, I think we're not so quick to spot the adaptations of the gospel that maybe we think, oh, okay, that, that could work. 

[00:15:02] And to look ahead, John, we see this in Athens. Paul's happy to work with this notion of an unknown God. But, but he gets to talking about the resurrection of Jesus and people are like, okay, no, wait a minute. This doesn't fit our thing. So, I mean, is my point, maybe my point's this, John, that there's a caution to people who proclaim the gospel to be on the lookout for the adaptations that will not always be immediately apparent to you straight away. 

[00:15:31] So, like, I grew up in a culture where, in a Christian culture, where we were very scared of certain adaptations, certain theological and cultural adaptations, but we were absolutely blindsided by celebrity, by stage, by crowd and, and now I look back and realize that was the bigger danger than the, watching TV on Sundays. 

[00:15:55] Does that make sense? 

[00:15:57] John: Yeah, it does. And it sort of leans back into the conversation we had last podcast. So the, the dynamic contrast between an adaptation of the gospel and a contextualization of the gospel. Is that, is that fair as a reflection? Cause we had a great chat last time about the fact that actually the gospel message never changes, but it has to find a measure to be accessible to a context. 

[00:16:23] But if we drive contextualization too far, it can become an adaptation. It becomes almost something other than the thing we wanted it to be. So what starts off as language that's understood by the world in which we're speaking, actually becomes language that starts to change the message we're speaking. 

[00:16:49] Is, is that a sort of like a, because I think we had a brilliant chat last time about, about that context of the gospel and, and, what you said there about the danger of adapting the gospel, which I think is, is profoundly subtle, deeply, deeply, deeply subtle. I don't think it's, I don't think we even set out to do it, but we find ourselves. 

[00:17:10] Almost by osmosis sort of thing. It's like we find, if we're not vigilant, we find ourselves adapting the message of Jesus to fit us rather than keeping the message of Jesus pure and changing us to fit that. 

[00:17:28] David: I, one, yes, like a million percent. I love the way that you have phrased that and that's the subtlety. And, and, and let me say this, like these things will always be subtle, right? The, if we want them to be black and white, well, if they were black and white, we wouldn't, we would be able to choose, right? 

[00:17:48] I remember, I remember our Glenn Balfour's mutual colleague of ours and friend of ours. I remember him saying to me when I was his student, he said the best lies. Are mostly true 

[00:18:02] John: mm. 
 

[00:18:04] David: and and I, and I've remembered that, I mean, that's, it's going to be my goodness, 20, 24 years since I heard him say that. 

[00:18:10] And it's, people say something and you think, okay, I got to remember that forever, right? The best lies are mostly true because the worst lies don't even sound true for a lie to work has to seem believable. And, and so, yeah. And there's the subtlety of sin and the subtlety of the devil at some level is that we can talk, we can, we can, we can argue for it. 

[00:18:32] We can defend it. We can justify it, right? And so here's the thing that I want to say. This might sound a little too hamfisted and obvious. What I love about X14 is for Paul, it's very clear. that this is now not centered on Jesus. You think I'm the thing, right? And this is a problem. And, and I think about this is the modern pastor. 

[00:18:54] You look at how many churches when, when the pastor leaves the congregation leave and, and, and, and you think, okay, wait a minute, something subtle has just happened just there. And I'm not talking about. These situations where things change and, and a new pastor comes in and, and, and you don't have the relationship with them. 

[00:19:13] And, these like people leave churches when pastors change. I totally get that. But I'm talking about situations that I've encountered in the North American context, particularly where a pastor leaves in the next week. Half the church are gone, or you don't go to church on a particular Sunday because your favorite person isn't teaching or you do go because your favorite person is teaching these things. 

[00:19:36] I mean, they're dangerous for a congregation, but they're cancerous for the preacher, right? Because if you, the preacher start buying into that. And start realizing that something shifted. And I think the way we build modern evangelical churches with big stages and, people looking at you, it becomes very subtle that you're not asking the question that Paul's asking here. 

[00:19:59] Are you looking at Jesus or are you thinking I'm the God? Right? And nobody phrases it like that. Nobody articulates it like that, because when you do, we get the answer right every single time. Hence why it's the subtlety. And what I love about Paul here, and I wonder if any of our listeners catch it, is that Almost overdramatic response, like he rends his garments, rushes into the crowd. 

[00:20:27] Well, I think it's because Paul realizes how serious this is. Not even necessarily for the crowd, for him. It's like, this would be really bad if I buy into this, if I even open the door. To my goodness, Barnabas, did you see that oxen? That looks pretty tasty. It's like, we know that we're not gods, but let's just have a nice ribeye at while we're here. 

[00:20:48] And that would be your adaptation that you're talking about. Isn't it? 

[00:20:53] John: No, very powerful. And, and just the image there of Paul in the middle of the crowd speaking with torn clothes, it's, it's, it's quite, it's quite a dramatic thing, isn't it? And he's there making absolutely clear, hold on a minute, hold on a minute, you've got this wrong. You, you need to step back from this. 

[00:21:13] And, and again, I, I, I love Your phraseology, I am not Jesus or this is this is not the Jesus We want to proclaim or we are now sidetracked from Jesus And I think that's got to be constantly the rule of thumb The rule of thumb is if in any context we are in it looks like people are Looking to us rather than him or we are positioning ourselves more more indispensably than him. 

[00:21:45] And I think, I think that's, that's where we've got to have the courage to go, hold on, hold on. Are we getting this right? Or are we in danger of adapting something that sounds and looks right, but could be actually subtly. Very, very dangerous indeed. And what, what I love here, David, is like, Paul's a clever man. 

[00:22:04] These, these are, these are serious people. Paul and Barnabas are serious people. These are top quality people. And yet, and yet Paul is desperate not to allow his ego to be stroked or enlarged or. Pulled to the center of this conversation. He's desperately trying to move himself away from what the people are, are trying to achieve, uh, within that. 

[00:22:32] And I love that. And I find that as a teacher, as a, as a preacher, as a communicator of the gospel, where people say some very nice things about you, it's all very lovely. I find that a constant challenge again. If it's ultimately more about me than him, then hold on, hold on. Am I in danger of subtly adapting the gospel to fit my world rather than fitting my world into the gospel? 

[00:22:58] David: Yeah. I that's, that's the money right there, John. I think that's, that's the, that's the money it's what I remember I was really deeply joyful and then further joyful that I was joyful when I went to visit a church once to preach and spend the weekend doing some teaching with them. And somebody. 

[00:23:19] contacted me from the church afterwards, and they said, just wanted to reach out and thank you for your ministry. It was a couple of weeks later. Like I just wanted to reach out and thank you for your ministry. Just your preaching was, was quality. The teaching was excellent. And, but then they said this, they said, what I'm really thankful for is since you've left our people. 

[00:23:42] Have wanted to study the Bible more. And I remember feeling a real joy at that and then being so joyful that that was the thing that brought me joy because it's so nice to get, encouraging thoughts about the words that you use and your gifts and all that sort of sense. But for me, what excited me in that situation, and listen, I've not nailed this right every time, so I'm just like. 

[00:24:02] I, I worry sometimes that, that it's, it's easier to say, yes, I may be Hermes and Zeus. Right. But what, what I thought, so that's what I want to be as a preacher is not somebody that leaves and says, that guy was great. We should have him back. But that when I leave people go, we should totally read more about Jesus. 

[00:24:21] Because it's, it's, it means that I think it means that I was projecting in the right way. I think I was doing what I think. I want to do, which is what I see happen in an act is just, just be a big arrow that's just pointed to Jesus and, and, and, and, and showing people that that's the way. And, and I, I've got other stories where I probably walked away and thought I was, I was the real deal, but fortunately Jesus is as, as often gifted me with somebody who will appear at the end of the sermon, just take me down and not sure to 

[00:24:52] John: of course, of course, of course. David, I want to circle back to this amazing miracle that kicks it off. I 

[00:24:58] David: yes, let's do that. 

[00:24:59] John: a couple of wee things for us to think about. Number one is and we talked about this our last podcast, that the fact that when Paul turns up at Iconium He heads for the synagogue. So with the synagogues available, that's where he goes. 

[00:25:12] It seems in Lystra, there's no synagogue available, and it feels like wherever this takes place, that this miracle sort of becomes the little sacred place. It becomes, it becomes the epicenter of this opportunity, and, and I love this sort of the man, who was, who was lame from birth and had never walked, listened to Paul as he was speaking. 

[00:25:36] So we're not quite sure where Paul is speaking here, but the fact that synagogue's not mentioned, we're assuming no synagogue and that research seems to show us there wasn't one there. But then it says, Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had the faith to behave and called out, stand up on your feet. 

[00:25:54] That the man jumped up and began to walk. Now David, I couldn't help but hear that, listen to that and read that and not be drawn back to X chapter three. We, we've got a very, very similar sort of moment and, and I done a wee bit of, I did a wee bit of compare and contrast. in preparation for sort of our conversation. 

[00:26:18] And some of the similarities are just striking. So some of our listeners may remember the man at the Gate Beautiful being healed. It's John, it's Peter and John the protagonist there who, who pronounced Jesus. But, but I noticed a couple of things. Both are lame from birth. So in Acts chapter three, verse it says he's lame from birth. 

[00:26:39] Acts 14 verse eight. In both cases, Peter and Paul look straight at him, or directly at him. So that was an incredible little nuance there. And then in the name of Jesus, in the name of Jesus of Nazareth, rise up and walk. For Paul, there's no direct reference to Jesus, but just a command to stand up and walk. 

[00:27:05] In the X3, he's helped up, but in X14, he jumps up. And then in X3, the people are filled with wonder and amusement, and in X11, the gods have come down. So, so you've got all that stuff going on. And I just thought, oh, there's a lovely little, that's really interesting. This is a very, very Similar. Now, I'm not sure I know what to make of that other than, oh, that's just interesting, but I thought sort of the compare and contrast were, were striking and staggering. 

[00:27:38] And, and the fact that actually, just like in Acts 3, that this miracle kicks off a significant moment of opportunity for salvation. And then also controversy, of course that kicks off in Acts 3. We, we see people coming to faith in Acts 3, repent and turn to God so that your sins may be forgiven. And you get this, this sort of lovely, lovely sort of inferred response, but then you also get controversy. 

[00:28:08] You also get the priest of the Sanhedrin giving Peter and John a hard time. So, so this miracle creates an opportunity. For something to be said, having, having happened, but it also, in both cases, creates tremendous controversy. I don't know if you noticed that, or you spotted anything, or even something much more profound than simply my contrast observations. 

[00:28:32] But I thought that was really fascinating. 

[00:28:34] David: hmm. No, I, I, I felt that there, there's illusions throughout this text to the sort of Jesus miracles, but this acts miracle struck me as that parallel as, as, as well. I noticed that they both do the same thing. They look at him. I, I thought it was interesting that Paul says in a great voice I have a theory and 

[00:29:05] John: Go for it, 

[00:29:06] David: this is, this is kind of just building from the, the two conversations that we've been having here. 

[00:29:13] And I don't want to, I don't want to get lost in the weeds of this cause it is just a theory. But you know, and, and just to help our listeners, I've been sitting on this and wondering about this for a little bit, but then you're comparing contrast, the thing that isn't there, the way you phrased it, I was like, yeah, so if, and you're going to have to bear with us as we go into future episodes to see this happen. 

[00:29:35] So I'm almost just, I'm just naming something I see here, John, but you said it. The one thing that's missing is in the name of Jesus, right? 

[00:29:43] John: Mm hmm. 

[00:29:44] David: Paul's a human, right? And we, it sounds like a really strange thing to assert, but I just want to keep that in mind. He's such significant character in the New Testament, but as he himself argues, we're just humans like you. 

[00:29:56] Right? So are we open to the possibility? Paul makes mistakes, right? Are we open to the possibility that Paul learns, right? And that Paul gets better at doing the gospel, right? There's three questions that a listener can kind of ponder over because here we have, Paul looks at him, same as Peter sees that he has faith, right? 

[00:30:19] But instead of saying in Jesus name, he says in a loud voice. Do you see what I'm saying? This is a little bit of, there's a great quote out there sometimes, is it the Holy Spirit or is it you just speaking loudly? Right? So, so he says to, he says to the man, stand up. Now there's a way I'm making a whole argument from silence here. 

[00:30:42] So, so bear with me on, on that, right? We don't know what he said, but it's interesting that Peter says in the name of Jesus, stand up. And, and Paul says, stand up in a loud voice. Right. The net result of this miracle, but bear in mind, even from the Moses traditions in Torah, we have miracles happening that are not done properly, right? 

[00:31:03] That God says, speak to the rock, Moses strikes the rock, the rock still gives forth water, right? Then there's this reaction that people say, Paul is God, right? So he's not said in Jesus name. And the people's response is you're Zeus and Hermes. And in chaos, Paul gets rocks lobbed at his head, right? 

[00:31:24] Now we get to Athens. Paul comes into Athens and tries a similar strategy again, right? He comes in and he says, okay, right. Listen, you've got this statue out there to an unknown God. I'm here to talk to you about this unknown God. Again, doesn't go. Hugely well for him because people, he doesn't get stoned this time, but people don't really buy into it, right? 

[00:31:44] Then what happens if you look at Athens is he then leaves from there and he goes to Corinth, 

[00:31:51] John: Indeed. 

[00:31:52] David: Where he starts to hang out for a little bit longer. With with some with some people, namely Priscilla and Aquila, who appear when we look at Paul's later letters to be teachers of Paul, right? And it's interesting to note, right? 

[00:32:08] He then, let me just let me just get this text. There's a moment in. In there, where in verse nine of chapter 18, the Lord says to him, don't be afraid, but speak and do not be silent. Right. It's just interesting to know that from there on out, I think you see, and this is the, this is a really, really tentative. 

[00:32:29] I think you see Paul's preaching method change. Right. And he seems to, and so by the time, now let's cross reference with first Corinthians. I came to you and I knew Jesus. Right. I, so, so we know that he's, but when he writes to the Corinthians, by the time I arrived in Corinth, all I spoke to you about was Jesus. 

[00:32:48] It was Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, nothing but Christ in him crucified. Right. And again, hugely tentative theory here, but Paul heals a man with a loud voice. The crowd think he's the God he gets stoned. He goes to Athens, tries another. Can I just tentatively say adaptation, right? And then he meets Aquila and Priscilla, and now it's Jesus only, Jesus crucified and resurrected and nothing else from there on out. 

[00:33:14] And I just wonder, and shoot me down, and if you really shoot me down hard, I'll just edit this from the podcast so that nobody knows that I expounded this. But is it possible in that subtlety of the contrast you drew just there, that the one thing that is missing. In the name of Jesus is actually indicative of Paul realize I'm not talking about Paul's faith here. 

[00:33:35] Paul's believes Jesus, but he's Paul realizing that his missiological strategy needs to be Christ and him crucified first and nothing but the foolishness of the cross. I'm just, I'm just tentatively laying that out, John and going, do you, do you even is what I'm saying even potentially worth saying? 

[00:33:55] John: Oh, no, I, I think it's absolutely worth saying. I mean, I think, I think the Athens to Corinth link is absolutely unmissable. And I think Paul definitely comes out of Athens with the sense of, Ooh, I haven't come to you with cleverness. I've come to you in the power of the spirit and the, and the, and the. 

[00:34:14] simplicity of the gospel, if you like. That's my word summarizing it. And I think you do get a definite shift, absolutely 100%. I think when I did my little contrast notes, it was the one thing that stood out. So of all, of all the compared contrasts between X3 and X14, it was, it was Paul speaks. Now, now, of course, we have examples of Jesus speaking with authority. 

[00:34:40] He simply speaks to disease. So there is a Jesus pattern there, but I think the problem that Paul is facing is following a potential Jesus pattern, which he hasn't done anything wrong. He's just spoke with authority. The problem is not naming Jesus. He has opened himself up to be the person who healed the man. And I think that's the challenge. And I, I absolutely would track that with you. I think that's there. And it could be that very subtly, Dr. Luke has included the two stories in the way that he's included them to sort of, so it's a bit like when we've done reflections in bits of the New Testament, me and you have gone, Oh, there's an echo of that in the Old Testament. 

[00:35:21] Well, we're only 14 chapters into the book of Acts, and we're already hearing echoes from the early chapters of the book of Acts. So. There's clearly some lovely little lines and connections being drawn there. And I think the X3 And the X14 healing are definitely worth a wee look, because I think there's some subtle, or maybe not so subtle, ideas there within that. 

[00:35:44] And I think certainly, and your, your conversation earlier on about, does Paul learn, does Paul grow in the gospel? Absolutely! I think, I think we're seeing them learning as they go, and it's, it's an absolute given. That they will have made mistakes, done things in a way, Oh, maybe, maybe we should, we drew attention to ourselves too much, or maybe we need to move on, or maybe we should have moved on quicker. 

[00:36:10] So I think there's always learning as they go, but, but I do think that, that, that, that little contrast highlights that one significant difference between the two miracles and maybe, maybe. That's why you get the controversy of the sort of Zeus and Hermes type dynamic. Whereas in X3, the controversy is based on Jesus. 

[00:36:32] It's definitely a controversy on Jesus, who you crucified, but God raised from the dead. So it's a very specific argument whereas this one goes south in terms of going in the wrong direction super fast. 

[00:36:47] David: It's one of those places where, and we do have these conversations on Two Texts, relatively regularly. I'd want to say this about this. If my theory, tracking of things, is complete bunkum, I think the point that we're making is still a good one. 

[00:37:03] John: Oh, yeah. 

[00:37:03] David: If that makes sense, the, the, the, even if, even if Luke's just chosen to represent Paul slightly differently, but I would lean towards you saying, I don't think Luke does much by accident and, and it seems, especially when you make that contrast between chapter three It's like, well, this is a really strange thing to forget. 

[00:37:23] And then when you add to it, the way that the crowd seemed to be confused as to how this has happened, seems to double down on that, that, maybe this is not, ah, the crowd, they're always stupid. Maybe this is not what Luke saying is Luke in his brilliant way, just pointing out, Hey, listen, there's something here. 

[00:37:39] That you're going to see, and I love this idea of Paul arriving in Corinth and Aquila and Priscilla sort of put in their arms around him and saying, okay, ma'am, let's show you a better way to do this. 

[00:37:51] John: Yeah, yeah. Completely. And it reminds us again, doesn't it, David? Back to a conversation we've had over probably the last two podcasts, it reminds us again that ultimately we've got to make sure, whatever our language, whatever our message, we've got to make sure Jesus is heard and seen. in how we gospel. 

[00:38:15] And, and it is about Jesus. It's, it's, if we're gospelling through acts of kindness, then we want Jesus in the narrative. We want Jesus in the conversation. If we are, if we are proclaiming a message, we want Jesus in the narrative. If we're laying our hands on the sick, we want Jesus in the narrative so that we are careful to guard. 

[00:38:36] ourselves from getting glory that is only his and also protect those we minister to from moving in the wrong direction. And, and yes, absolutely. Honor men and women of God, honor missionaries, honor saints, honor people who put hands on the sick and see people healed 100%. But of course, remembering always, this is about. 

[00:39:02] Him, and it's not about us. And maybe, maybe this little story is a profound reminder of that idea. And even for the great Apostle Paul, saturated in Tanakh, and absolutely transformed by an encounter with the resurrected Jesus, even a little reminder for him that actually don't de Jesus the gospel. Make sure Jesus remains at the heart of the proclamation and at the heart of all we do, whether it's in words or in deeds. 

[00:39:34] And I think maybe, maybe that's something that we, we learn from this beautiful story. 

[00:39:41] David: And, and then just as we sort of land this, this story, I'm curious. We'll just squeeze in a conversation here about how it ends. Right. I think to your point, I think there might not be a synagogue here because. Notice the language of verse 19. So the crowd, this group of Jewish people that were angry with Paul, back in Iconium have followed him. 

[00:40:07] They found him. And notice they come and they win over just the crowds, whereas previously they were winning over, Some of the Jews, some of the Gentiles, now they're just coming into the crowd. There's, there's an absence of any language. So I think we're in a fully Gentile context here, which is, which is also fascinating then that the people have come in to your point, the crowd are so fickle. 

[00:40:32] But I'm just, I'm, I'm interested in what you think about Luke's language here of supposing that he was dead, but when the disciples surrounded him, he got up. I mean, It's a strange little end to the story that leaves it hanging around. Is Paul dead? Is Paul not dead? One sense, supposedly he's dead, oh he's not dead. 

[00:40:54] But in the other sense, this, but when the disciples surrounded him, Luke seems to be suggesting that the disciples surrounding Paul is an important part of his getting up again, doesn't 

[00:41:06] John: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and just a couple, I think a couple of things worthy of note there, David, the zealousness of the opponents of Paul and Barnabas is, is to be commended here. Not only have they come from Iconium, which is around about 20 miles up the road, but they've come from Antioch, which is approximately a hundred miles. Journey. And it's that serious zeal, right? Absolutely. These people are seriously mad in the context of angry towards that. And what struck me, David, as well, was the absence of Barnabas. So it's Paul that's getting whacked here. Barnabas is not mentioned getting stoned. It's very, very specifically Paul and, and, and maybe, maybe, because Paul has rushed into the crowd, Paul is the one that's torn his clothes, that they turn on Paul and maybe Barnabas is somewhere on the fringe and they get so frenzied in trying to do something with, with Paul that, that Barnabas just gets sort of, ignored here in the context of that. 

[00:42:12] I, I, I mean, I don't know or whether it's two completely different moments that are being, but it's Paul that is the one that's dragged out and it's Paul that's the one that's left for dead. I, I've often wondered was Paul raised from the dead there? Is that, is that a possibility? I'm reminded of his own words in second Corinthians. 

[00:42:31] Where he, he talks about, um, I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, been exposed to death again and again. Five times I received from the Jews the 40 lashes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked. 

[00:42:54] I spent the night on a day in the open sea, and then he goes on and on, but it's interesting, the second Corinthians reference, he referenced being stoned once. Now, we would love to have a bit more detail. Is, is that this one here? At Lystra. And did he die? Or, or did he just, was he just stoned unconscious and they didn't finish the job and the disciples helped him? 

[00:43:16] I, I love the idea of Paul maybe being raised from the dead in this context. I, I'm not close to that idea. I love it. But certainly something happens when the disciples gather round him. But, but look at the reaction. He got up. And went back into the city. just completely, he's completely mad, isn't he? 

[00:43:40] He's completely bonkers. So he gets, he gets stoned, dragged out and then, and then gets up and goes back into the city. So whatever happened with those disciples gathered around him, it was pretty spectacular because Paul straight up and straight back into it. 

[00:43:55] David: Well, so it's, it's funny because I, when I was reading this in, in English text I was thinking about this lack of synagogue thing. And then I had this moment where I thought, I wonder what the Greek word that's used for Surrounded is, or gathered around him, and I thought, oh, I wonder if it's synagogues, because the word synagogue literally means to gather around, but interestingly, it's not. 

[00:44:20] It's a different word. I worked it to be fair. I didn't really recognize. I could only find it four times in the new three other times than this reference here, right? At once in Luke chapter 20. When Jerusalem is surrounded by an army, right? Once in John chapter 10, when the Jewish people gather around Jesus and ask him, are you the Messiah? 

[00:44:42] But then the one that I really liked is the third, well, the third uses X 14 here. And then Hebrews 1130, by faith, the walls of Jericho fell after they had been gathered around for seven days. 

[00:44:55] John: very nice. 

[00:44:56] David: And I, and so I love this. It just seems like a strange phrase and sometimes, what hints you on to something going on is that the phraseology is strange, but the, the disciples surrounded him. 

[00:45:08] It doesn't say they gathered around him and helped him up. It doesn't say they picked him up like and carried him home on his mat. It just says they surrounded him, and but it's also phrased in such a way that it's an action prior in terms of the grammar. It's an action prior. To Paul's action, and then just to add to the intrigue and suspense, do you see in the Greek, they gather around him the same word that the Hebrews author uses to gather around the walls of Jericho, the disciples first, they gather around him and then Paul gets up. 

[00:45:46] But the Greek is Anastamia. It's the same word that is used to describe resurrection. 

[00:45:52] John: Resurrection. 

[00:45:53] David: And and so, so it, I mean, it's not exclusively used for resurrection. Hear me well when I say that. So, but it, but when you read this text in the, in the Greek, he is, he is left for dead, right? And, and the disciples come, they gather around him. 

[00:46:15] And he raises up and goes back into the city. I mean, that would be, this is what I want to say to her. That's a about as literally translation as you can get gathered around having gathered around him, the disciples, he raised up and went into the city. And so make of that whatever you want, right? Luke is leaving that out there. 

[00:46:37] One group of people loved rocks at Paul's head and thought he was dead. 

[00:46:43] John: Yep. 
 

[00:46:43] David: text. Reaction to that is the disciples gathered round. He raised up and went back into the city. I mean, that's got to make you a little bit excited. It's 

[00:46:51] John: one last thing I heard a gorgeous echo and it's Matthew 27 and it says this at the moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, the earth shook and the rock split, the tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs and after Jesus resurrection. 

[00:47:12] They went into the Holy City and appeared to many people. And I just, I heard that lovely echo of having risen up, they went back into the city. They went, they went, it was almost as if Paul's going back into the city to show, Hey, I'm not dead. I'm alive. And these people rise and immediately go into the city as a testimony. 

[00:47:33] That they're not dead, but they are not alive. I, I, I just thought that was a gorgeous little, I don't know what to do with that, but it was a great little connection. 

[00:47:40] David: The, I would say that's that's like peak two texts that we, we, we say that we always say it, don't we, that one text invariably leads you to another text, hence two texts.